DLC problem could be easily solved by name change!

Age of Empires II: DE II - Discussion
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And I also wanna add that Yue is no longer relevant in medieval era, since most of the people who were previously called “Yue” in the Yangtse region had been assimilated or absorbed into the Sinitic populace by the Middle Ages.

The remaining native tribes of South China who fled to the hilly regions of Lingnan and Yungui were called “Pu”, “Man”, “Li”, or “Liao” by the medieval Sinitic people. Therefore I propose a “Pu” civ to cover the Nanzhao/Dali kingdoms as well as all the native tribes and chiefdoms of South China.

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Yue I posted in topic thread was intended to refer to people who live in ancient Yue region, not Viet ethnic in Southwest.
Though their kingdoms were destroyed by central Chinese dynasty and Wu kingdom in 3rd century(see White Tiger Yan), their cultural influence lasted for long. In later eras, they even developed their own culture like Min or Cantonese, which obviously distinct from other cultures in China.

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I don’t know whether this is less bad..

With this name change, now the 3K supposed-to-be-chronicle part feels off now. Shu, Wu, and Wei are Chinese (sure some prominent figures/generals/warriors might be from local region’s ethnic groups, but still).
To be fair I don’t care about 3K for aoe2, but I respect that it makes a great chronicles and many would enjoy.

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Even Jurchens and Tanguts were merged into “Chinese” by both previous devs and current Chinese. I noticed that the word “Chinese” may have different meaning inside and outside China. Chinese means all people and ethnics lives in current China for Chinese, including Mongols in inner Mongolia or Tibetans in Tibet, but for non-Chinese, it may only refer to Han Chinese.

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This is a similar issue to “Slavs”, which are now implicitly referred to the eastern slavs/Rus now, where name change would be nice but wasn’t as urgent given the amount of complaints.

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suggestion-summarised-renaming-the-3k-civs-v0-4oyxkatsuiue1
suggestion-summarised-renaming-the-3k-civs-v0-4oyxkatsuiue1640×700 134 KB

Someone from Reddit posted this.

Additionally, my humble suggestions from a Chinese history buff.

Jurchen: All good.

Kitanguts: Probably good to keep it purely Tanguts. The UU and Castle assets are already there.

Wei: Shift the Liaodao UU to the renamed Xianbei/Khitan. For context, Liao Dao is Liao Dynasty blade in Mandarin. May have to tag Tiger Calvary as campaign only or reassign it to OG Chinese.

Shu: Agree to rename to Bai/Nanzhao/Dali. Historically, Shu enlisted many natives from the surrounding Bashu, Guizhou and Yunnan regions. For ROTK fanboys, Nanman is the predecessors of Nanzhao–Dali. The White feather guard can be renamed to something generic, like the Dali guards. If this approach is taken, the Dev would probably have to add some colours by introducing some UU to reflect this.

A lazy and convenient one would be the fleet-footed Rattan Shields from AOE3, replacing the War Chariot. Chariots became irrelevant during Medieval China and it has no place in the hilly and mountainous terrain of Southwestern China. The base model can be modified from the Vietnamese Rattan Archers UU.

https://historum.com/t/about-the-rattan-armor.182984/

Wu: This is a bit tacky. Suggest to rename it as Jiangnan Chinese. Minyue or Wuyue seems too distant into the past. Historically, the centre of Imperial power always revolved around the Central Plains until the 5 Barbarians 五胡乱华 period, which caused the Imperial court to move South. In the process, 2 distinct sets of culture evolved, with the Jiangnan Chinese being more commercial and more naval oriented. Much of the Silk, Porcelain and Tea were exported via the Maritime Silk Route from modern day Jiangsu, Hangzhou and Fujian.

Jian Swordsman and Fire Archers are generic enough units, with the latter based on Huolongjing 火龙经 and Wujing Zongyao 武经总要 so it’s all good from an immersion perspective.

OG Chinese: The OG Chinese could represent Chinese from the Central Plans 中原 and Yellow River regions, which still represents Chinese Political and Military power till this day. Maybe to reassign the Tiger Calvary from the current Wei lineup to it and receive some rebalancing to the Calvary line?

Note to the Dev, if you are reading. Ripping off Koei Dynasty Warrior won’t impress the Chinese. In fact, many Chinese are already offended by how their cultures are being misrepresented by the Japanese through the Dynasty Warriors series.

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That picture is exactly what I want to say.
Plus: Anothers reason for my solution: It could be realized via modding without affecting MP players.

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The devs cannot and should not just simply “rename” or “modify” the civs like this.

Diehard fans might accept such a change. However, the Three Kingdoms theme has attracted customers who simply enjoy the Three Kingdoms story, who don’t care about the civ definition of AoE2 or who had never paid attention to AoE2 in the past, and they have already preordered the DLC exactly for the Three Kingdoms theme. The devs cannot and should not provide them with a Three Kingdoms content pieced together by civs that are not actually from the Three Kingdoms. The Wei, Shu and Wu have been promised to be their own playable civs instead of just other civs that act them in the campaigns.

Even not every diehard fan can accept such a change. For example, I honestly like the Three Kingdoms theme, and it’s just that I don’t like they are in the base game of AoE2. Personally, this change would be just a lazy and cheap solution to some extent, somehow like an ostrich problem, negative and disappointing for players both who really like the Three Kingdoms theme and who really like Khitans, Bai and other medieval civs. I’d be more willing to wait for true Khitans and Tanguts civs but not by losing the Wei.

Just moving it to a spin-off game and giving spin-off games a exclusive elo ranking system, every body will be happy and satisfied.

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So an official mod is needed rather than a replacement for everyone.

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Would be amazing indeed. Any of :

Nanzhao, Xianbei, Tibetans, Tanguts

…Siamese.

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You can literally re-name civs in campaigns.

The current Wei civ is basically a Xianbei civ with the wrong name and emblem anyway.

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With every change China need rename by Han or Song

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Let’s hope mod do it.

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I knew. That’s still providing a Three Kingdoms content pieced together by civs that are not actually from the Three Kingdoms, which could be unacceptable.

For example, I don’t think they can sell a Native American-themed DLC but the campaigns are formed with other civs such like the Celts and Goths that are renamed to the native tribes. They have done this in the game but it would be unacceptable for content of a Native American-themed DLC.

People are paying for the Three Kingdoms-themed civs, not Xianbei, Bai or Yue even though their tech trees may be very similar. After they have promised the Wei Shu Wu are playable civs, officially renaming is impossible, I think.

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Or just made the 3 kingdom civ unplayable in ranked, create 3 new civ based on the tech tree of the 3 kingdom civ, change the name, the emblem and do some tweaks on the tech tree to fit the medieval period if needed, and those there will be available in ranked.

Every one as 5 new civ on multiplayer, every one could play with the 3 kingdom civ with the campaign or on custom lobby.

And it should not need too much work for the dev to do this.

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I really don’t want this kind of negative compromise. I don’t want to see Bai or the new Khitans as just masks for Shu or Wei. In this case, why not seriously develop 3 new medieval civs instead of simply copying and slightly modifying them? If people are willing to accept that Three Kingdoms civs do not participate in ranked games, then it would be acceptable too to only allow the Jurchens and the current Khitans for the time being.

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Because of the ammount of work needed

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So what? When the devs are willing to make the Three Kingdoms civs do not participate in ranked games, and are willing to seriously develop the medieval civs that people have been looking forward to, won’t people be willing to accept the current 2 and wait for them to perfect the new ones?

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Ideally I would want brand new better civs too, but this is the China DLC. I doubt we will revisit the region any soon…

And people may be disapointed if theres only two new multiplayer civs

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Even if it takes a few years, I can wait. As long as the problem is taken seriously and attempts are made to resolve it, it is normal to have throes. To me this is much better than simply allowing thosse medieval civs to become victims of failed policies.

For me, it is fine to have two non-Han Chinese civs in one DLC. Even though they promised 5 multiplayer civs, I didn’t expect more than 3 before the promise.

People might be disappointed in May by having only two new multiplayer civs, however, a negative compromise is more harmful in the long run. You’ll allow them to introduce new civs base on specific city-states or kingdoms, and they’d just need to give them medieval names as masks to bring them into multiplayer.