To get 10 HP you need to spend 2650s and 1925w. Maybe im overthinking this since you do get 1 town center to start with but even still this is demanding for not enough Hp for Arbs to survive a direct Onager hit.
For infantry Vikings get more than this much for free on infantry still get plate and have a runaway wheelbarrow economy.
Franks exist nothing else needs be said and even Vietnamese archers Enjoy better armor and economy
Do you see piles of gold above the ground like ingame?this game is not realistic so having miners generate food is not a big deal.
This is understood, in that case, to improve this civ’s design, I will apply @ZeroEinna 's suggestion of rewriting the Castle Age UT, and your suggestion of removing one of the stone bonuses to focus on other aspects for versatility.
New Castle Age UT: Clan Totems - Monks get +2 conversion range, then increase villager gather rate equal to 5% of your current pop space
This will make a monk play more convincing, and tie in with their defensive and “tempo” playstyle. What do you guys think? Or there any better suggestions?
However, I cannot edit my post anymore, is there a limit to editing?
Hello Mr. Porpoise, the Swahili Civ concept is up!
Let me know what you think 
Thank you for reaching out to me, I’ve read it and put a like but didn’t feel like commenting because I honestly know nothing of them eheh so I was just learning and go check about possible campaigns.
It would be cool to have them fight other south African civs like Zimbabwe, are there any accounts of it? Otherwise yes you need to rely on Muslim and Christian colonizers.
I don’t want to always quote him but the only other Swahili concept I found was the one of Robbylava but maybe you already looked at it!
So the only real insights I can give, history aside, are strictly from a player’s perspective: the team bonus is original but I often prefer team boni that works more than once in a match, but that’s totally my pov (I argued with Robby about not liking too much one effect repeatable UTs while he was enthusiast about it).
The two UTs are very cool (less pop space for trade units is something the game should have), maybe the Imperial tech is op?
And about other boni I think like others said maybe there’s one too similar to Saracens and the discount on wood for certain buildings maybe could be changed with something more specific? (Even if I get that early castle age monastery and monks should be part of their identity) if I was more accustomed to the civ history and specifics I could help you come up with some alternatives but if the point is the fast Islam spread through the Swahili coast maybe a bonus about conversion could work? Like remove illumination maybe and make monks regen faith faster per age (like franks missing bloodlines but actually having a better version of it incorporated as a bonus)?
Anyway I don’t think I’m actually very talented for civ theorycraft so take my opinion for what it is. What I care the most is usually campaigns.
While I’m here here’s my idea:
Infantry and tower civilization
Civilization Bonuses:
Team Bonus
Palisades +50 Hit Points.
Castle Unique Unit:
Nothing much to say. Since I spent the evening reading about the area, I thought that I might as well. Maybe I went overboard with the strenght of the bonuses, but civs without cavalry always seem to need someting strong to compensate, so might as well go hogwild. I’m not bold enough to propose villagers getting +100% and then +200% carry capacity though, lmao. +30 Hit Points and +2/+4 from Loom also sounds messed up.
There were no accounts of battles between the two empires, in fact, they were more like trading partners since the Swahilis acted as middlemen for the gold Zimbabwe would produce from their mines. The only interaction I could find was when Kilwa established a trading post in Sofala, which was an autonomous port city part of the Mutapa Empire, to wrestle their influence on the city. They had to pay tribute to Mutapa to be allowed to stay there.
This is a good suggestion and could work 
Anyways thank you for your comments, watch out for the Somalis next
Hey there, you are welcome to share your thoughts too on my Zimbabwean civ design.
This is a powerful eco and defensive boost, probably needs to be toned down, but an interesting and unique idea.
This is overpowered, it could only be one or the other. The Romans already get the double effect from the armor, and despite losing the Imp armor tech, their infantry is still top tier.
This bonus I already use, but this one is weaker, since it does not include TCs, towers, and Castles.
I prefer the longer lasting stone mines because 350 additional is quite unnoticable.
This bonus is too similar to the Cumans.
This is already the Sicilians civ bonus. The effect is also too weak for a Castle Age tech that you still have to invest on.
Interesting mechanic, although too weak and not impactful for a final Imperial Age tech. It would be good as a civ bonus.
I’m a history lover so reading the history of a civ and conceptualizing how it can be played in my favorite game is the fun part to me. You also need enough game knowledge not to make your civ design too imbalanced. So that is the difficult part, making the civ not to weak or strong or predictable while being fun to play and staying true to their history so that you still feel that you are somehow roleplaying the part.
Double effect from Blacksmith attack is basically just Aztec Flower Wars spread across several ages, may be stronger earlier in the game, but Burmese have something similar and they certainly haven’t broken anything. I think you’re just overblowing how strong it actually is. And yes, it’s just the Roman bonus but the other way around.
There were no accounts of battles between the two empires, in fact, they were more like trading partners since the Swahilis acted as middlemen for the gold Zimbabwe would produce from their mines. The only interaction I could find was when Kilwa established a trading post in Sofala, which was an autonomous port city part of the Mutapa Empire, to wrestle their influence on the city. They had to pay tribute to Mutapa to be allowed to stay there.
They eventually took over Sofala, so it certainly wasn’t just peace and flowers for centuries on end. Records in general are rather scant though, relying on the Kilwa Chronicle is not the best postition to be.
Yeah I think it’s not a big deal if it’s about infantry only. Before Ror came out I made a Romans theorycraft where infantry benefit double from both armour and attack upgrades but they lack squires, supplies and the militia line cost is 60 food 30 gold while pikemen line cost gold instead of food. Don’t know if it was broken but having no trash units aside from light cav is severe enough I think.
Yes, that is why Burmese and Romans only get one of the other. Getting both is obviously too much. The Romans even had to lose final armor upgrade to balance it, so if you are adamant about keeping this bonus, access to other infantry techs must be gutted as suggested by SamePorpoise.
Where did you read I was proposing giving them both in the first place?
Lol my bad, sorry I read that wrong.
This is a civ that should almost certainly lack cavalry. Explosive tsetse populations means all mounted animals are unable to migrate this far south.
Repurposed Assegai into a scout is… ill advised. Boar laming becomes almost an unconscious brain dead play since with speed and a ranged attack you can steal a boar, chip at an enemy scout and still avoid all damage. Even if they had like 30 HP until Feudal it would still be a favorable matchup to be the only ranged unit in Dark Age of especially during a drush.
Yeah you are right, though it is not impossible to trade them in as well since they are not so isolated like the Meso civs. If we go more historical accurate and they lose the Stable, I would have to introduce a second UU that functions like the eagle line.
For what is worth, I’d go with the Pombo as the regional unit that stands for the Scout. I feel Camel Scouts would be justified too.
But this civ isn’t Swahili. Zimbabwe is a very cut off place where if you brought horses then tsetses would kill them very fast.
Yeah my bad, got confused because both threads are named the same.
Remember that the art of war between 1575-1680 would be more for AoE 3…
Yeah a regional scout unit like eagle-line would be great. It could also be used by Central African civs like the Kongolese, the Luba, and Chwezis if ever we get Central African DLC.