Just remove their damage bonus (against Buildings).
It’s also thinkable to reduce their HP and Armor to that of a Monastery aswell. In general I could even imagine Monasteries/Churches having less HP, so it’s easier to force the Relics out. But this is more a topic that should be asked the clown community.
Problem solved, Next one please.
Maybe nerf their build time too. They build in 40 seconds (a tower takes 80). Phosphoru is using them with Armenians to FC church rush on open maps like arabia. It seems unfairly OP, no way to stop them going up because of the fast build time. And once their up they make warrior priests, fire arrows, and have more than twice the HP of a tower.
That’s what T90 promotes.
But I think it’s not necessary.
And the issues with this proposal is that it ignores the fact that it’s a monastery for the civs. It would be a huge disadvantage on “clown maps” if they would build slower than other civs monasteries.
Yeah, I watched T90s video too. You have a point about it being the monastery for the civs. But they are OP when used as “tower rushes”. I don’t think nerfing their damage bonus will be enough. So what to do? Maybe lower fortified church HP and give villagers a damage bonus against them too…
It’s hard to tell if it will be exactly enough with removing the damage bonus. Probably not if the fortified churches remain to have more HP and Armor than regular Churches.
Though without the Damage Bonus even feudal towers can be used to stop the Church rush. Possibly even Walls and houses, though these can ofc be directly attacked by vills and/or Priests.
Currently the issue - and you could also see it in the video of T90, though it wasn’t the best example for the interaction - is that you can use the Churches to shoot down defensive Towers, which is silly. This wouldn’t be possible without the Damage Bonus.
I wanted to make a post of exactly this point. It’s crazy T90 at his elo would ignore this fact. A monastery should have a monastery’s build time, otherwise you can cry when you got elephant rushed.
On top of removing their attack bonus, I think also the relic arrows should be removed, and maybe maximum number of arrows reduced to 2.
Making them easier to counter with towers could be an interesting solution. Maybe remove fortified church damage bonus and give towers a damage bonus vs the churches. Towers already have a range advantage, the problem is that it takes forever for them to destroy the churches.
Totally agree there. THis is ofc already just because Monasteries in general somehow have absurdly high HP.
Thinking of this… Churches could get negatiive anti-Building armor
OFC it needs to be checked if this has other bad sideffects like with the new water balance. But the approach could be promising.
I don’t think intentionally. He probably just didn’t think about it. And that’s why we discuss this kind of stuff in topics because it allows easy feedback on stuff like this.
It’s already limited to 5. IDK if I would reduce it more, as from experience with the Khmer Houses I say that not firing arrows from garrisoned vills is a huge disadvantage and actually is the classic “sense of fals safety” issue. Opponents could just try to accumulate lots and lots of idle time there.
But there is also something we could possibly think of. Reducting the base Attack (but adjusting the max arrows accordingly) could be an interesting tweak, so it would be possible to use high-pierce armor units like Skirms to tank the arrows and it would also make Villagers with loom a bit more tanky in the interaction.
Towers do have +5 bonus vs stone defense armor class, which the fortified church already has. We can lower that armor value to -5 maybe.
In the new patch:
“Warrior Priest cost reduced from 30 food 60 gold → 30 food 50 gold.”
They just made the church rush even more OP. Why devs? Please explain this.