To be honest if we are going down this road it’s going to be real long. How come Mayan have crossbow but not Spanish? Why do Frank and Teuton palas lose to Lithuanian ones? You could keep the list going.
Actually Plumed archers have one of the weakest attack among archers UU (only 5). Only slingers and imp skirms have a lower one (and non-elite Kipchaks but they have the additional arrows)
It is not only for historic. Aztecs may be hard to resist Mayans.
Aztecs Garland Wars eagles at the front will be defeated by Mayans El Dorado eagles easily. Then the Mayans eagles will avoid Aztecs Atlatl skirmishers from killing the plumed archers. If try the jaguar warriors to defeat the Mayans eagles, jaguars will become hedgehogs by the plumed archers’ arrows.
it is still regarded as a top archer troop in the game, because as an archer, HP and speed are more important than attack in many occasion, such like facing some high pierce armored units. Mayans depends on it such like Mongols depends on Mangudai. In some degree, Mayans and Mongols are similar, and the role of their unique unit playing in the strategy are similar too.
I don’t get the reasoning. You say that the Mayan player can micro his units so that his eagles kill the enemy eagles and skirms and then use his plume against infantry, but the Aztec player can do the same. He can put his infantry in front of the onagers to keep them safe, hit and run with his skirms who will outrange plumes, and so on. Furthermore, the Aztec player doesn’t even need Jaguars here. Champs will massacre eagles just fine, while being much cheaper and faster to produce. Two more points:
In Feudal and Castle Aztec eagles are just better because the increased creation speed makes them easier to mass (especially given how long they are to create)
In trash wars Aztec are better too, as their pikemen can beat halbs, and their longer range skirms will hit harder, and first.
Well, you mentioned the fact Meso bows were “very crude” and as far as I know bows don’t make you more resistant or run faster, but are here to harm people/animals. So the attack of Plumes being weaker than those of standard archers and other archer UU means they accounted for this lower quality of american bows.
Even not need to micro, just be naturally, the melee units combat each other, the range units stand behind and fire. The winner of melee combat push its melee and range units at front to chase the rest enemy range units.
Upgrade to the champion needs lots of time and cost. Compare to the champion,The jaguars has same pierce armor, 5 HP more and moving faster. It will be more efficiency to kill eagles, especially +40 HP one. No mention last-armor-lost Atlatl skirmishers and champions may be too slow to face such a fast combination. So you can see Aztecs players use jaguars to face eagles rather than the champions in many occasions.
Basically the plumed archers are not quite afraid of eagles. One is Mayans archers are cheaper so making the plumed archers more easily to keep a good quantity. Other is the plumed archers also run fast so they don’t be force to fight the eagles. The quantity also let the eagles’ high pierce armor not always useful.
We don’t need to adjust the data of the plumed archers, making El Dorado a little little nerf and cheaper will be useful.
Just make sure Aztec can survive until the gold on the map get lacked.
Yeah, in this view it is reflecting the history, but in my view, making a bow archer as a Mesoamerican UU may be inappropriate, there should be other better choices.
Mayans have been already nerfed since age of rajas, the plum is now a little more expensive and the path finding makes their eagles weak.
Any civ with siege and champs can counter them, aztks>mayan in late games, jaguar+SO is a combo that mayans can’t stop, the same can be said about slavs, boyard+siege destroy the mayans so easy, you are maybe not using the right strategy vs them.
El dorado isn’t that powerful, if you don’t have paladins, champs and ur UU deal 5 base damage, the lasting resources bonus has been decreased to 15%, which is nothing big, the game has changed if you want a civ with more resources pick portugueses, i remember a 2.4k crying because i won using the feitoras in TI, i was like come on bruh why else would i pick a slow civ in this map if i wasn’t thinking of using them, because the wood doesn’t last lol, you need to change ur strategies, if you are opening with champs when you have a stronger army combination, then the problem aren’t exactly eagles and el dorado.
Up for visibility again,
mayans got two nerfs recently and aren’t overpowered. nothing needs to change.
50.35% overall.
51.49% 1250-1650.
nothing needing a nerf.
For techs I actually agree with this logic. There is no problem if a decent civ has a very good technology.
Mayan post-imp is pretty lackluster, so its fine if they get very good psot-imp eagles.
Are you counting 20sec increase as a ‘nerf’ that diminished them? They increased in score.
Well, the overall balance of the civs should be 40-50% or else it means it is winning vs civs that should counter it too.
Also, you should stop taking these % too seriously. They mostly depend on the pool size of the players that played that civs and how many specific related civs that counters it, are there in game and the civs played against.
For example, there are 15 cav civs and 10 archer civs. As cavs counters archers, those archer civs don’t need to have 50% win rate to be balanced. We have to see what civs those archers civs have specific winrates against and not the overall winrate (which if it is 50% could mean the archer civs are winning vs civs that they should lose to)
NCBW, but Mayans would need a gigantic rework if El Dorado was nerfed which is not needed
Hi , oui mais il coute de l’or while someone who goes up his lighting cavalry will have hussars that will only cost him food and if the 2 fight the eagles will have the advantage but not hugely and at the end of the game you can more spam as much .
And yes it’s not so hard countered it’s not a unit of crazy me I would prefer that we nerve the Mangoudai who are much stronger and do not re-read against yes there are the gunners but faced with their mobility it can not fair great things . 
Nah left Mayans as they are (Not OP or weak), also Mayan Eagle Warriors act like as Frankish Paladins at melee combats and raiding, any nerf can hurt more than do something well.
What kind of nerf? The 20 sec is a real joke to call nerf.
That’s like you call the buff of Elephant Archer is a buff for Indians. No its buff for elephant Archer und most player still does not playing with these UU for good reason.
Mayans are not that OP but El Dorado needs a real nerf.
I’ll expect your list of nerfs for franks goths huns and teutons then. If mayans get a nerf those civs definitely deserve one.
Is this a joke? You only watch games and looking for statistics? How about talking about balancing units and ability instead of civ?
because the game has always been about civ balance over unit balance.
just because you want something else doesn’t mean anything about how the game has been designed.
that is why 20 years later you still have some civs that use their UU pretty much every game (Mongols, Goths and Mayans come to mind) and some who just don’t use it, or use it very rarely (Aztecs, Huns, Byzantines).
if you want a game that puts unit balance over everything else i am sure there is games that do that, but AoE2 has never been that game.
U re wrong. Last patch we got huge EA buff, but they are still quite unused and does not make Indians stronger.
Teutons UU, Leitis and Keshik got huge buff too. At the end its a buff for the civ but not every unit buff is a “real” buff for the civ and that’s what I prefer.
Everyone wants to nerf Leitis not because Lithuanians are too strong but Leitis are OP. Just accept this. You only want to buff weak civ. Not everyone think in that way.
The deal is that eagles aren’t UU. Also, Mayan have much less units available than any of these civs, so proportionally, “unit balance” will have greater effect on “civ balance” for them.
The Steppe Lancer overnerf proved that.
Except all those civs needed buffs. If you can buff a weak civ through its uu why not.
And everyone may want to nerf leitis but it still hasn’t happened.
And I never said I only want to buff weak civs. I actually think teutons and goths need to be toned down.