Elephant Archer stats Bug or feature?

All Calvary Archers have a bonus damage against Spear Line. Why don’t elephant archers have it. They cannot escape them like cavalry archers and take bigger bonus damage. Is this is a bug or a feature?


I’ll say it is a faulty feature. And also Ratha doesn’t have the bonus damage. And that’s also a terrible design.


Elephant archer itself feels like a bug or feature question.


Elephant Archers are ironically easier to micro, as they don’t have as long of a frame delay as Cavalry Archers do. And they can still tank more hits than Cav Archers do, so eating few hits isn’t that big of a deal.

Parthian Tactics still apply to them (those who get it, at least), giving them more damage against Halberdiers, right?


Only Bengalis. And this is a real surprise for me. I never thought they would have any horse related tech - Bloodlines, Husbandry, PT. And ironically they have all 3.


I’m not sure why you’re surprised. The Meso civs have Horse Collar, after all. I think the tech names are just abstract justifications for their effects, and are not really connected to anything discrete.


I don’t think any of the cav archer units should have an innate bonus against spears tbh. It’s like giving crossbows bonus damage against skirms.

Cav archers can already infinitely kite Spears, why tf do they need bonus damage on top?

How come this analogy? Skirms are designed to hard counter xbows, pikes are not designed to counter CA. Actually every range unit (except EA) has a bonus damage to spearman class, even defensive buildings have a bonus damage to them. It’s a consistent design: pikes should be weak to ranged attack.

And you can mindlessly spam pikemen, no micro needed. CA are expensive and micro intensive.

I have argued against this like a dozen times. So, let me repeat. This is bullshit. You cannot spam pikemen mindlessly. Pikemen micro can often determine if they win against knights or not. People think that infantry require no skill to use, when that is absolute nonsense.

They absolutely are. Why else do you think they get massive bonus damage against CA? If you don’t micro, your cav archers will hard die to pikes.

It is somewhat consistent, I agree. What I don’t agree with is the design principle. There is a good reason that foot archers get a bonus against pikes, I can’t think of a good one for cav archers.

I also think it’s ridiculous that 40 arbs lose to like 30 hussars, if you don’t micro. If anything, foot archers should get a bonus against the scout cav line.

When you are boomed, yes you can.

Would love to learn. What micro are you talking about? Formation? Focus on low hp targets? Run away between reloads?

Because CA are cavalry. Pikes don’t have additional bonus vs them. On the other hand, CA has specific bonus vs pikes. Tell me which is more intentional? And why would you make pikes to counter CA in the first place, when you have skirm to do the job?

I think this is harder to understand than CA bonus vs pikes. Could you explain? Although I agree with it being a convenience.

This is out of nowhere. Mixing in pikes with arbs is so common already. Why would you make it over-convenient for archer players? Also how do you expect Turks to counter arbs?

I try this with friends. Huns vs Huns

60 huns Halberdier with micro can beat 60 paladin while those paladin use normal move attack

60 paladin will only die 15 unit to kill 60 Halberdier while those Halberdier use normal move attack


Insane. Do you have a video demo? It sounds like bad pathing is a big contributor, likely a lot of unit freeze. By using stand ground yourself you avoid the freeze and maximize the damage output.

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Because 2022 civs are way more historically accurate then 2000 civs.

You’re right. Otherwise non horse units like Camel wouldn’t get affected by it.

Still Bengalis got Bloodlines and Husbandry a surprise. From historical point, it feels like these 2 techs have been swapped with Dravidians. (Not Elite BE as Bengalis had one of if not the biggest elephant army in the world). And Parthian Tactics maybe a reference of Persian Dynasties of Bengal Sultanate.

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When you are boomed, you can spam any trash unit mindlessly. Hussars are easier to spam over long term.

There are a few general ideas with infantry, and I’ll copy one of my older comments about that here:

But let’s get specific to pikes. There’s micro and counter-micro. Here’s the important bit: It is (almost) never worth it for cavalry units to pull back and re-engage, unless the conditions change. This is assuming no wacky stuff like coustillier’s charge attack, and a modest number of units (say, 10-15) on both sides. Why is this? Because pikes/halbs have a longer delay between each attack, and each attack will do a lot of damage.

In practice, the cavalry player can do two things. One, add in more units and two, heal up their units. So, let’s start with early-mid castle age. At this point, pros will pull back their low HP knights, and get them healed. If you are using pikes, you need to focus micro. i.e, target one knight with 4-5 pikes. Each pike hit will do 24 damage to knights, which have 120 HP. Which means, 5 is the exact number you need. I am talking about like 10 pikes vs 5-10 knights here.

Now, this being said, no good cavalry player will just push their cavalry into halbs. So, you have the three main counters. Archers/HC/Skirms, Siege(Onagers, and scorpions), and other infantry units. The first two require their own types of micro, while you need to just pull back with the last one. Rapid formation change is good against skirms, while you need something way more complicated against siege. I have linked a clip above of Viper taking down onagers with halbs.

Yeah, so pikes counter them. They are cavalry, so pikes counter them. Simple as that.

They have less bonus than foot archers. Which is also the same as buildings.

Foot archers have very low HP. Crossbows have 35, while arbs have 40. They also have 0 base pierce armour. On top of all that, they aren’t even that fast like cav archers. This makes them surprisingly weak to even units like halbs, if they are few enough, and you don’t micro them well. The numbers pan out such that you need a small bonus for archers to decisively beat halbs, as they should.

It’s interesting that you mention that. Pikes and Arbs are weak to the same unit, Skirms. Right now, archers have a great counter, skirms. However, hussars are also a soft counter right now, under the right circumstances. I don’t think that’s needed, or good.

You don’t balance the game around one civ. You can just give turks something else to deal with arbs.

Probably because they have higher base attack. Also now HCA have higher attack bonus than Arbalester.

It was a old game and the replay is not working. The trick is that you need to use stand ground and engage enemy with vertical formation vs horizontal formation. You engage left part paladin first. Do NOT use horizontal vs horizontal otherwise you lose. This Trick only works on small unit vs big unit.



If Turks is a 2023 civ then Turks must have Pikeman and Elite Skirmisher
if Romans is a AOK civ then they won’t have even have Crossbowman
Same apply as Hindustanis that they won’t even have Pikeman

Just add Pikeman and Elite Skirmisher back to Turks

Sure, but that doesn’t change the overall point. I don’t think this is good, or necessary.

The issue with turks might’ve been the 8 range-on jannies, which counter even skirms in castle age. Now that’s nerfed, giving them skirms should be fine.

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I actually have watched the video from Dave long ago but never tried to use it. I will remember to use it, also this focus micro, when applicable next time.

In practice I almost always just patrol, because it’s either early/mid castle age when I try to defend knight raid, and pikes spawn from all over the base (I don’t want to regroup them with current pathing), or late imp, when halbs are streamed into battle field, again, not wanting to regroup to get free hits.

Fair, so they counter each other (depends on micro).

CA has +2 and HCA has +4.

I can see your point because I do have killed xbows with halb mass. But I would still prefer microing xbow/arbs over CA, vs pike/halbs, because it’s much more forgiving to get hit.

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