Elephants are OP

[RatcicleFan]

It has been suggested to death and has been rejected every time.

[NarrowBubbles54]

I still see Batista elephant more OP than other, special scor of Khmer get free 1 range 2. I still don’t know how against Khmer with score+ hussar:v

[Stitch3s712]

yes it does, because Elephants aren’t scared by the smell of camels

[JasuniSmith]

@Doeswegotta

Battle eles cost about 25% more than knights and give +150 hp and splash damage. Elephant archers cost 11% more than knights and have a ranged attack. No one has trouble massing knights. Getting a potentially game ending number of elephants is nowhere near as hard as you’re implying.

So no, there’s no logic in that whole ‘strong because hard to mass’.

Knights can be effective in small numbers because they can run around, raid, and generally pick their fights. That helps with massing knights. Elephants are a lot harder to use effectively in small numbers. A lone elephant is simply too easy to pick off. The result is that you have to invest more before you can get reasonable value from elephant units than you need to with knights. And knights can get value without any upgrades (mainly due to mobility allowing them to avoid fights) while elephants generally have to engage in fights to get value (something that works best after some basic upgrades - especially the armor upgrades)

@Doeswegotta

Here’s a game that shows the reality of elephants vs monks. Daut got devotion at abt 16:20 then just sent elephant waves into the enemy base. Against Georgians. Off 1 TC. No archer, onager or monks of his own to counter the monks - just battle eles. Notice how easily the monks were drowned in the number of elephants despite what should be the ideal situation against a unit they should hard counter.

Devotion and extra conversion resistance has weakened the effectiveness of monks against elephants. Still, a single conversion more than pays off the cost of a monk (even with the Malay discount). Though monks scale poorly (Lancasters square law doesn’t really apply to monks, but does to elephants).

@DesertRose8804

I am asking because some people claimed that Archers into Elephants is the new meta.

I think the meta is scout cavalry into cav archers. Could be wrong/out of date. And may well change with the new update (infantry getting stronger may encourage archer play). In any case, the meta is definitely not elephants (which is what you’d expect if elephants were generally OP).

In my opinion, elephants are only OP in niche situations (many of which are avoidable through very reasonable actions earlier in the game). Meanwhile, knights are a powerful unit in most castle age games. Hussars are almost always a useful unit in late-imp. Siege options, as expensive as they are, can deal massive amounts of damage in a very small space of time. Archer-units can often deal decent damage while staying at a relatively safe distance. And cav archers are the best unit for hit-and-run tactics (often allowing them to deal damage while completely avoiding taking it - though this does take skill and micro)

[AbuzzJam4677680]

@DesertRose8804

why haven’t you picked a Civ that has a good late gam

If camels needed to do huge bonus against elephants, vikings should have got halbs to be fair.

[II.Selim]

The elephants are simply poorly designed — including the War Elephants.

They should have been designed with a base speed of around 1.05–1.1, lower cost, but also much lower HP and attack, with no innate resistances. That way, they would scale much better with other units. I would also make their elite upgrade intentionally underwhelming.

[Doeswegotta]

Now we’re going a bit far. it really is just the turks lack of valid counter units that screwing them over vs elephants.

Access to pikemen is the all thats really needed vs battle eles. Tho, SO’s are the only way vs ele archers.

[Jeanpaulmanas]

@BattyMussel374

Oh I don’t expect this to happen now. The community is too used to the current system to adjust to a change in how unit population works.

It might me the wrong recipient, I am totally against change of population count in AOE2.

@NarrowBubbles54

I still see Batista elephant more OP than

Onagers are a hard counters to Barista elephants.

[NarrowBubbles54]

@Jeanpaulmanas

Onagers are a hard counters to Barista elephants.

Like 1 my comment, hussar+ elephant balista,
Other scorpion+ 1 free + balistic hmm it more threat than here. ( Do not related to topic but still need talk)

[Jeanpaulmanas]

@NarrowBubbles54

ike 1 my comment, hussar+ elephant balista,
Other scorpion+ 1 free + balistic hmm it more threat than here. ( Do not related to topic but still need talk)

You wanted onagers to be a counter of the whole combo of units ? Same if I tell hallebardiers do not counter Paladins + archers. It’s obvious.

[RatcicleFan]

@Jeanpaulmanas

@NarrowBubbles54

I still see Batista elephant more OP than

Onagers are a hard counters to Barista elephants.

Dave Bautista Elephants?

[NarrowBubbles54]

you are not see it