Elite Berserks lost 1 HP out of nowhere since the latest patch

Hi everyone,

Since Age of Empires II HD: The Forgotten DLC, Elite Berserks had 75 HP, they only had 72 in the original game and The Conquerors.

Problem is since the new released patch, they lost one HP without notice, here’s the proof:

A game from TheViper from a five months ago, you can clearly see 75 HP.

Game from Hera today, they’ve been nerfed one HP, 74 HP only.

Why isn’t this nerf mentioned in the patch notes? The devs basically moved their HP a third of the way from what it was in the original game (72 HP).


Strange. Are there any matchups where this changes the outcome? They seem to take the same number of hits from archers, cavalry or infantry. It does change them from taking 38 to 37 hits from enemy Elite Skirmishers, but this seems minor.

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If they heal though, can’t they take almost infinite hits from skirmishers? Yeah, I just checked it. A berserk with Berserkergang researched is healing at at least the same speed as a single Elite skirmisher is dealing damage, maybe even faster. So it won’t really affect that interaction.

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Hmm, that’s a good point. It does bring up a bigger issue though, the slow regeneration may negate my other point about unchanged hits taken. Depends on how much they were able to heal during the fight, but it could mean 1-2 more hits from any enemy.

Either way, it seems like a rounding error. Hopefully will be fixed even if the effects are small. No reason to nerf Elite Berserks, they were already inferior to Viking Champions with balanced resources.

With berserkergang, they heal 40 HP per minute. That means they heal 2 HP every 3 seconds. An elite skirmisher has a reload time of 3.0 seconds, as well as the time it take for the projectile to actually hit. With all armor upgrades for the Elite Berserk, it has 5 pierce armor. The elite skirmisher deals three base pierce damage, but with all three attack upgrades and chemistry can get this up to 7 base attack. Maths then means that it will do two damage to the Elite Berserk every 3 seconds, which gets exactly countered by the healing. If you add in thumb ring, then it fires faster, but the berserk will still normally kill it before it matters. The projectiles are also rather slow, which further decreases the rate at which the Berserk takes damage. Also, if it misses any of the attack upgrades or chemistry, then it only deals one damage every few seconds, meaning that Berserks can handle it, even without Berserkergang, because then they heal 1 HP every 3 seconds, although you do again encounter the issue with Thumb Ring.

Civs missing any of these techs:
Celts, Cumans, Malians, Persians, Slavs, and Teutons all miss Bracer.
Aztecs, Bohemians, Britons, Burgundians, Burmese, Celts, Franks, Goths, Khmer, Sicilians, Slavs, Teutons, and now Vikings all miss Thumb Ring.

That means that out of the 39 civs, 17 of them will never be able to use Elite Skirmishers to kill Elite Berserks with Berserkergang, and 3 of them will never be able to use Elite Skirms to kill any Berserks, with or without Berserkgang.
Note: All my maths assumes that the Berserks have all the armor tech researched.

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Sure, but 37 Elite Skirms can now one-shot an Elite Berserk, while before that required 38. Not a big deal, and doesn’t matter if they are 1v1 with time to heal. Just gets complicated since we have no guess as to healing intervals in or between various battles.

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Yeah, but who takes 37 or 38 Elite skirms into combat with an Elite Berserk? The other ones would just kill you instead. Also, don’t Vikings have a bonus that gives their infantry 20% more HP, so would the berserk actually have more health than that? Or is that just other infantry or something?

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dunno man, but first of all the missing 1 hp for berserks should be fixed, and then the 20% bonus health for infantry in feudal age should be 15/20/25% for feudal/castle/imperial instead.

that way you nerf their early game, but allow castle age to be the same and buff their late game which is what they really need - a buff in the late game.

Maybe they could get a buff to their Arbalesters. That would help their late game more than 5% HP. Something like Thumb Ring could work :grinning:


Lol. I’m going to go off on a limb here, and guess that you were part of the group that preferred the previous Vikings?

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Hey everyone, good catch!

The way the previous staggered hitpoint bonus was applied it actually resulted in one more hitpoint for the Elite Berserk than expected.
Elite Berserks have 62 base hitpoints, with the 20% bonus we end up at 74.4 which are rounded to 74. :slight_smile:


The thing is Cysion purposely buffed Elite Berserk HP from 72 to 75 HP when releasing The Forgotten (late 2013), to make them more viable.

The 75 HP figure is the “improved” value he intended for Elite Berserks, it feels like a letdown to touch it.

It seems weird that their HP isn’t a multiple of 5, before or after the 20%. I suspect 75 is the goal, but the math doesn’t work out. If they had 63 x 1.2 it ends up 75.6 and rounds up to 76.

Maybe the answer is to give them 67 x 1.2 = 80 HP. IMO Castle Age berserks are balanced now, but Elite Berserks are usually worse than Champions with equal resources spent.

Except berserks can regenerate. Which means they are a better long term investment if they survive

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20 characters.

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well since you guys are aware of the issue, can we expect berserks to get back to 75 hp or are we stuck with 74 hp berserks?

i mean the fact its rounded down to 74 from 74.4 kinda suggests that the 20% infantry health buff tooltip in their tech tree is a lie :open_mouth:


It’s a lie one way or the other unless you want the game to count fractional HP points actively.

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