I’ve been thinking about the Elite upgrade of the UU, some of you have mentioned that you would like a different skin for the non-Elite unit. Although that would be great I don’t think it will happen in the short term (I prefer skins for the monks first)
What I would like is for the Elite upgrade to have an effect that makes the upgraded unit stand out even more from the standard unit (non-Elite)
Something similar to what happened with the Korean Turtle Ship, its Elite upgrade grants more speed, before the imperial technology did
Some examples I’ve thought of are War Elephant, removing the effect from Mahouts and giving it to Elite upgarde
Another English longbow, reduce the range of the non-elite unit by one and give it to the elite upgrade
To Infantry units it can be both speed increase and +1 PA (Samurai, Jaguar Warrior and Urumi)
All of this will likely lead to a rebalance the cost of the Elite upgrade
I had even thought about the Elite Battle Elephant upgrade, granting more speed and resistance to the conversion
And the Elite Steppe Lancer upgrade could reduce its cost to unity or grant +1 PA
Most units you named have the elite upgrades in a fine spot (Samurai for instance got the elite upgrade lowered because the attack got increased in castle age) and as well giving more PA for Samurai and Jaguar Warrior in the elite upgrade won’t do nothing because that isn’t the role for what those UUs are made (and giving more PA to Samurai is asking them to be OP because they have high DPS so being good in melee but taking arrow damage is just too much). Only one that I agree is for Urumi (give 1 base PA and more speed so they fill the role of a glass cannon high attack infantry).
For War elephant is already discussed that yes is needed, but wtf why you want a direct nerf to Longbow in castle age when the problem lies on how overshadowed are by the arbalest in imperial, nerf Britons arbalest and then you will see Longbows way more often.
As for Steppe Lancer just reduce the absurd food cost to 700f, pros have started to use steppe lancer so making the elite upgrade just cheaper is the way to goo (but not PA, otherwise you make the Tatar Steppe Lancer too strong).
And I mean you need to look at the ones that actually need an improvement:
Genoese crossbow: why the elite upgrade only gives +5 HP and a bare +2 attack bonus vs cavalry? is just too little value for a way too expensive upgrade, make the elite upgrade to give +2 base attack (from 6 to 8), that will give a way better difference compared to other UUs.
Chu Ko Nu: The UU is clearly OP for the cost but the elite upgrade doesn’t give much value (+5HP, 2 more arrows but a debuff on ROF…)
The game is pretty well balanced now apart from some of the newer civs, so I don’t think big changes like this are necessary. Elite UU upgrade is still worth it if you have the resources. But yes, aesthetically some gold armour would be nice and make the upgrade more attractive. And also intimidating for your opponent to see that you have elite.
Overall, decent ideas, I think. Some of them coincide with a thread I’ve been stewing on about general UU viability, just gotta get around to making ze poast.
Ideally, more (Elite) infantry UUs ought to meet a certain PA or speed threshold in order not to be countered out of existence by ranged units. It’s no coincidence that the most viable infantry UUs by far all have 6+ PA (Obuch, Kamayuk, Ghulam, Huskarl). Also I’d say giving +1 PA to Elite Samurai does help it with its intended role of countering UUs, where it currently struggles vs. ranged units.
Elite Samurai DPS is ~= to Japanese champions when fighting non-UUs. Which is good, but to not the point that Samurai are unbuffable relative to swordsman line that’s 25 res cheaper and only 10 HP short.
3 of the infantry UUs you named are balanced with that in mind, Ghulam and Huskarl are designed to counter archers thus having good PA makes sense, Kamayuk can get up to 6 PA to not make them too similar too Halberdier and give Incas a power unit, also Kamayuk has way lower HP and melee armor than Obuch.
Also is fun you specifically name these ones but you forget that Teutonic Knights and Serjeants have better HP and armor than most and yet they don’t see much action, while Berserk and woad raider (both which have lower PA) see way more action, mmmm is then a PA problem or rather speed🤨??
Sure, because that’s the only gimmick for TKs, and Serjeant’s ability is niche to the point of usually being a non-factor in combat. Whereas the 4 UUs I mentioned have good PA and at least 1 other strong gimmick (and lower cost than TK or Sarj). Point being, the UUs that end up with 6+ PA skew strongly towards being good/viable units overall (with even Serjeants being not bad in Imp, although somewhat overpriced), with only 1-2 of the inf UUs with 5 or less breaking out of the “very situational” category by virtue of other strong attributes (above average speed, attack, and gold efficiency for both WRs and Berserks, plus regen and anti-cav for Berserks).
Obviously it’s the synergy of all their attributes, with PA and speed being the most important. Obuch is same speed as Serjeant, but clearly has a lot going for it besides, and is too cheap to boot. If you prefer to focus on that dimension, perhaps Samurai speed could be bumped up to 1.05 or even 1.1 But I imagine you’d be similarly resistant to proposals to buff speed on these other UUs to any notable degree as well.