Lets do a comparison, only difference listed.
Goon vs ERK
Cost: 90f 90g vs 75f 75g
Pop: 2 vs 1 Excluding treaty, in sup 10 goon required 1 more house than 10 ERK
So I apply pop to cost will become: 90f 90g 10w vs 75f 75g
HP: 241 vs 180 (+61)
Range attack: 26 rof 3 vs 15 rof 1.5 (26 vs 15 for first attack and 26 vs 30 at 3sec) -4
Speed: 7.25 vs 6
Multiplier: 2x artillery, 2.25x shock inf vs 0x artillery, 2x shock inf, 0.75x inf
So ERK only cost 15f 15g 10w less, around 20% cheaper.
Gets around 25% less HP, less 1.25 speed, no multiplier against artillery and 0.75 against inf.
Especially speed is a imp factor in the game.
From this cheaper cost, they can’t fight artillery like goon, they can’t HR cav like goon and lose speed advantage fighting goon, can’t fight musk type like goon.
I can’t see any fair factor from ERK nerf in previous patch. From previous nerf at least give back ERK speed or artillery multiplier.
I know Aztec hater will say Aztec can train more ERK to compensate their weakness, train other units to compensate goon role. They cost less so they should be suck. Even ERK only has 1 attack and 1 speed they will still say strong.
If you dont want them, lets trade them. We get the support cards tho too
You kind of forgot those, the +4 range one, the 30/30, plaza boosting stats, and the 1 pop thingy kind of being a big deal in most FF and FI plays.
Yes the aztec roster is sort of weak stat to stat. Theres a reason they mid tier in treaty if not bad (well i guess lots of debate but old wisdom was) but they do well in supremecy at higher elos when players learn to balance plaza, micro, and squeeze the right shipment order out. Gotta combo the right stuff then your units way more cost effective.
Also 1.5 attack speed has alot of benefits like less overkill and faster lancaster law’ing
So yeah on behalf of most civs trade them. Give up the plaza and cards and ill let you take my basic italian french haude(god imagine haude with these ) malta dutch russia otto TAD civs goons etc. If you dont want them ill find them a good home in this economy.
ERK has 4 upgrade cards, 3 for combat and 1 for +4 range they’re also 1 pop so late game you can have double the ERK compared to opponents goons. Lower attack but faster fire rate means less overkill oh and don’t forget about the war dance.
I do agree Aztec lost its civ identity after ERK, arrow knight got repeatedly nerfed. These 2 units used to be able to hold their own against their counters when en mass (still won’t be cost effective), to make up for the fact that they have no direct answers (e.g., artillery) to mass range infantry. Right now they simply can’t fill the same role.
Jaguar prowler promotion and speed increase was supposed to make up for it but to me it feels more than a “crutch” for the handicapped still.
Otontin slinger still underperform to other skirmisher units.
And then Jaguar prowler got nerfed a bit again.
I don’t see the justification or rationale behind.
They can keep ERK as they currently are, but at least give us a viable alternative to mass range infantry.
Aztec hater comes Plays sup but start talking late game
My suggestion doesn’t even suggest any damage/HP/resistance buff.
ONLY SPEED and ARTILLERY MULTIPLIER.
OMG how hate is this.
Less damage with shorter ROF is weaker, when both batches meet, goon deal double damage than ERK. I have list very clearly in the main post, first shot goon does 26 damage and ERK only 15, ERK will die first, same reason can apply to OS, less overkill can’t cover this issue. and again goon can RUN AWAY EASILY WITH 1.25 HIGHER SPEED, goon can keep HR ERK for double damage on them. How come a 1700 player doesn’t know this.
So to hater: to make your main civ main unit 20% cheaper, nerf 25% HP and 1.25 speed, remove some multiplier and let them can’t do their role well, to you is ok, right?
ERK died 1 already from first shot, low damage no overkill? LOL
Every attack timing is decided by goon.
This is very simple and basic knowledge since vanilla AOE3.
+4 range so strong? ERK 16 range Port goon 18 Is Port goon 5.5 speed now? x0.5 against artillery?
Aztec sent 4 cards Port sent 2 cards. SO STRONG ERK can send more cards LOL. Lets make ERK can send 25 cards to reach Port 2 cards level to make them stronger?
Not hater? No discrimination? Or lack of knowledge?
This is from Top Aztec player deck, ERK +4 range card is not in deck, can hater tell us? because it is too strong?
He only puts that for ERK deck or team land deck, also sea deck is not include +4 range card.
Hater again doesn’t watch pros, argue against figure and data, ruining the balance in forum.
It’s important to remember that ERK doesn’t get automatic veteran upgrade for age 3 so it starts off kinda weak for its cost in age 3 without support cards. Also when you send all support cards you only get 5% more stats excluding the war dance, compared to euro goons who get something like 30-40 percent more hp/dmg after sending all support cards. The only thing I would suggest the devs change is their negative multiplier vs all infantry to just light infantry.
How do they loose 15 villagers? You mean due to no 2 factory?
They have +10 due to WP and fwwi in supremecy.solid eco. I know treaty they dont but im speaking mostly to supremecy.
AK are sort of hard to gauge tbh vs horse art tbh given their unique nature so harder to value in surpemecy but ive heard not as good in treaty
Their main bonus is a stronger plaza, if you dont fill it you are losing their bonus. 15v to fill it and lack of any kind of factory, so how many villagers lost in comparison to an European eco??
Aztecs arent winning in supremacy due to their lategame, they are winning due to their rush and these nerfs to lategame dont make sense.
Aztec with most underperform unit with highest winrate, so Aztec can fly if they have general units? So the problem is from units?
Aztec under 8 big nerfs their winrate raised.
Hater says no matter how to nerf Aztec, their winrate didn’t drop.
Aztec with some smurf found even at this stage, if hater really calculate their winrate and pickrate to remove 1800+ smurf in 1400 elo games, Aztec only gets around 50% winrate, sure haters don’t want to admit this.
From history has already shown only Revnak is enough to control winrate and haters just keep on aiming winrate but ignore those civs are already only having most bad unit status.
For haters always concentrate on “winrate data”, can be by human control, I can’t see any referability. But only this data haters can feel satisfy.
A civ doesn’t have strong eco bonus, units mostly underperform, continuously being nerfed, is the civ problem? Why in TAD didn’t have this problem, even whole rush type in the game wasn’t weak like now?
If Aztec is so strong can make hater easily win, please put the record here, use Aztec to defeat +200 elo and keep highest winrate to show here.
AND THIS TOPIC IS SAYING ERK WAS OVERNERFED, I WILL SAY AZTEC BENEFIT FROM JPK BUFF BEFORE BUT NOT ERK, DATA AND CONTROL SHOW THEY ARE WEAK, TOP PLAYER DOESN’T PUT THE +4 RANGE CARD THAT HATERS ARGUE REASON FOR ERK IS STRONG.
I’m Main Aztec (vha, in fact, Main 4 native), and I think ERK is still very powerful, better than the goons. I think the only disadvantage I find today is that it is somewhat difficult to mass them in the early game when you do semi-ff with WP, even so, 75 f and 75 g is fine for what it does. I consider that the problem is that the azzy light infantry is bad, and before that weakness could be compensated with the ERK attacking from behind along with the otomis and AK.
Rather than overnerfed, I would say that it was balanced, and I won lategames by only taking ERK in the past 21
Wut?
Man i think a nice deep breathe might be good
It comes accross like youre very upset
I cant say 100% aztec is this or that, but lets try to discuss things calmly
After all, we all want a fun game end of day. I dont know why you are this frustrated, but I am only speaking to see others viewpoints not close them off. God knows no one here controls devs balance anyways:)
This is very difficult to deal with when they ff with 2 nobles huts and place them mid map and just make these 2 units. AK is good enough to kite back to nobles huts and out range skirms while also killing any artillery and ERK deals with any cav.
The aztec mining card also somewhat offsets aztecs lesser eco and makes massing these units much easier.
) malta dutch russia otto TAD civs goons etc. If you dont want them ill find them a good home in this economy.
