I can also just say you don’t know the game.
Lets end. You can’t make ERK catch melee cav. Don’t waste both of us time. you just always come to deny me since DE. No matter what issue.
Before I don’t even care Japan you still need to tag me for only start the argument. So I am not going to argue with you anymore.
I’m going to indulge in some math for you, because your understanding of the game hasn’t really improved since Japan was your greatest fear (btw, how’s aztec vs japan for you?)
base stats for dragoons:
costs 180 resources, 2 pop. Thats 90 resources per pop.
for 90 resources per pop, you get 100 HP and 3.66 DPS per pop. Impressive!
ERK:
costs 150 resources, 1 pop. Thats 150 resources per pop.
For 150 resources, you get 180hp, 10 DPS per pop. Sucks!
So the ERK costs 60% more, but you get 273% more DPS and 80% more HP per pop.
I agree, they need a buff. lol.
Obviously, the only thing keeping ERK balanced is the resource inefficiency.
You are rich in imagination. Your job is author? Why don’t you say I never launch the game just bla bla bla here?
21
I KNOW NOW! YOUR GREATEST FEAR IS ERK NOW!
OMG I found a great secret.
Although I won’t talk to you about game, your comment is funny can make me laugh, this is good. Hope you can continue make some fun. Thanks.
No they arent.
As a skirmisher unit maybe due their damage and range. Army position-engaging is key in any battle, Aztec infantry as any infantry is killed easily with canons, granadiers (one or both). Cav can rush AK or Euro can wait for cav to get it, anyways posibilities are many.
You need at least 5 to deal with a canon, if enemy has 5-10 canons how much would you need?, plus aoe from the canons, plus undeployed canons are way faster so that presumption is quite incorrect (adding the fact that having more than 20 will make the ones in the back taking more time to get in range.
Thats debetable, first Arrows are slow as artillery (more since they cant undeploy themselfs). They maybe good as skirmishers due they range, other than that very few people play Aztec in general and I would argue that if you put a good player with a crappy civ can make them shine a little but it will still be the same bad civ.
I wonder do these pro Aztec players play other civs, in which position are they with other civs? if few very players are pro with them maybe is not the civ but the player skill that makes them “outstand” a bad civ.
aztec mains tend to mostly play aztec since its such a unique civ, have to keep up on them
I think exception here would be Big JuilianK who seems to do well with them. Lots of other good players can use a few builds, but few rival the likes of garja or even JPC in how to best utilize the civ
And all of them rate aztec high. Prehaps, what we need most of all is a call for more games of high level aztec. from different players and preferences, to explore things.
Devs have tried to move azzies away from “spamERK: the civ.” And I think its a very tricky civ to balance. as people can see in this thread, it seems to jive or doesn’t for most players so the question should be how do we lessen the curve to make it ascessable to more yet not OP? imho.
Well, I could say modding could be useful to test features for us players. I had propose many changes of x, y, z.
Aztecs have many units but some dont shine, Puma isnt needed due most if not all Aztec units have bonus vs cav for a civ that actually didnt knew horses, Otontin, due range-damage-health having the Arrows or Eagles, Jaguars have good attack but low health and tend to die easily as coyotes but coyotes due speed are good to rush cav, Skulls are resistant but spaming a good number is “slow”.
So, if maybe each unit were more defined in its function while also not needing a ton of card to “work”. Maybe its a bad example but Gendarme doesnt need cards to be a reliable unit, cards improve it not make it “work averagly”, dont know if im explaining properly.
Roughly i could say things could be:
Coyote = Hussar
Puma = Spearman
Otontin = Skirmisher
Arrow = Musketeer/soldado if you will instead of that thing
Eagle = Dragoon
Jaguar = Musketeer
Skull = Dopelsoldner
Note: we have to bear in mind though that melee infantry lacks something too in general.
Problems (personally)
Coyote, lacks bonus vs art and is weak vs art/skirmishers due being inf
Puma, early game cost, late game usage
Otontin, range/damage, rr
Plus the fact that Aztecs have a lot of cards that improve their units but still feel as if they are just making them viable.
Topic is ERK over nerfed. not Aztec, and main problem ERK didn’t have speed compensate.
I have said Aztec was benefit from JPK buff if you notice when you said I was upset. If you have viewed Kynesie deck, as I said too, he didn’t put ERK except only team land deck and 1v1 ERK deck.
Not only pro u mentioned, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUMaIqg8CMY and I am the one who was watching “old man” live these days including several games he play against Kynesie, he also said Aztec is strong controlled by top player but only 1v1, team game is suck. That’s what I said.
The only thing that I would like to see is AK having a limber mode.
Many people keep rising the issue of artillery vs aztecs, but really, artilery is the only thing that’s supposed to keep them in check. civs with no artillery have a very difficult time dealing with aztecs.
units arent in vacuum
if 1 unit is buffed on a strong civ, it can and often does (hauraca? hakkaelits? remember these recent changes?) make the civ overall OP
You cant call for 1 unit to get pure buffs and other units to not recieve changes and expect a strong civ not to get pushed into OP status. like last patch JPK and arguably still JPK.
As for teams, I cant say but that is how this game goes some civs are better suited for teams. I love haude. they are low af in teams. but since they on the tip if not at times OP in 1v1, and treaty, its almost impossible to boost team power without making the civ ridiculous in other modes.
So yeah, to discuss ERK you have to include AK at a minimum and then also discuss the civs general strength accross many modes.
Also kynesie players very different from JPC or garja and we dont know if that was him saying i hate ERK or his deck not needing them. its hard to make comparisons which is why I said ideally you want alot more games and data to parse through for aztecs i think.
Im not saying 100% ERK couldnt use a boost, im saying the unit must be very carefully assessed because aoe3 is complex and aztecs are even more complex.
So my suggestion is buff ERK speed, nothing about HP resist or attack.
If you include AK with ERK, means group them together, 0.75 speed doesn’t affect that much, for treaty all walls speed also not affect that much.
For me, ERK exist since TWC, before is strong yes, after big nerfed people are still saying strong. I know this “strong” will never end so I have nothing to say this, just they are impossible to survive in ES AOE3 period.
Hey thanks for noticing this typo ! I fixed it 
Coyotes are not weak against skirmishers; They are “shock infantry”; They are not labeled as infantry.
The main problem of the Aztec army is that its only unit made to face the skirmishers are the coyotes and their equivalent to the skirmisher/archer is weak (although cheap, quick to produce and can be improved with the community plaza.).
Coyotes are a good unit, but they struggle with walls or with musketeers who have a bonus against cavalry on their ranged attacks.
I would add that coyotes train relatively slowly from a building with a build limit, and that a batch of 5 coyotes dies much quicker than a batch of 5 hussars or other 2 pop cav. If you can push out big batches of coyotes quickly they are very good against skirmishers, but in practice that’s actually quite difficult to accomplish without completely committing to it with firepit and most or all of your war hut build limit all crammed in close quarters to each other.
ERK speed has been 6 since TAD man, i dont see how your argument that they were nerfed (by losing damage against infantry and losing range armour) translates to buffing them on speed to catch melee cav, which was the one thing about them that wasnt changed.
Also ur kiting demonstration applies to every cav archer (cav archer, keshik, bow rider, yabusame, javelin) unit in the game not just the ERK, they all have lower speed then dragoon and can be kited in the same way, they still have their role in the game.
So I said speed buff is a compensation, otherwise you want to buff their resist again?
In tad ERK was strong so 6 speed is reasonable, now under big nerfed so 6 speed is not reasonable, is this clear?
I didn’t say let ERK catch goon, just for them to catch melee cav? Are range cav you mentioned 6 speed directly let melee cav escape?
Also no one said cav archer is good as goon, that’s why Russia anti cav is bad, you can create another topic to say this.
Please identify what is their role, waiting melee cav rush into ERK group? Then ERK is still OP?
They were nerfed in different areas.
You want to increase their speed so that they can kill melee cav when the area that they got changed on was something completely unrelated. Their ability to kill melee cav has not changed, at all since TAD.
You called them strong in TAD when in all the areas of comparison you want to make, their ability to catch melee cav, being kited by dragoons, their stats comparison vs dragoons, their lack of multiplier vs artillery, none of these things has changed at all since TAD. Both dragoons and ERK got their ranged armour reduced.
The recent DE changes even made it so that it took less damage vs skirms they they used to (they used to take pure x2 from skirms in TAD).
If your argument is that they are now bad with 6 speed compared with their stats in TAD, atleast based it off something that actually changed. You dont make changes to a unit by going “well they were too strong in this area so we are nerfing it, but lets just buff this other area that werent a problem before” that would be like since cuirs splash is strong, lets reduce that while giving them siege damage cause it was kinda.
If you think they are bad, then the obvious answer is maybe reduce the negative multi to 0.8 instead of 0.75, maybe change it to light infantry instead so they kill muskets better. a 1.5 multi against artillery if you think its so bad at doing that.
then why make the video of the kiting comparison then?
Why have your starting statement about comparing their stats? and how they get oneshot by goons in an equal numbers engagement?
How does “they die to goons” go to “buff them against melee cav”?
The change you are proposing would change nothing about why you think they are bad, they still get kited by goons, they would still not be better at attacking artillery, still not be as good against range infantry. And unless they are also 7.25 speed, they would also not be as good as goon in chasing cav.
and yes just about most of the range cav would let melee cav escape (only yabusame and cav archers currently have higher speed then most melee cav) cause their animations allow them to escape the target lock if its long enough.
They are fast DPS unit that acts as defensive screen against charging enemies, say by kiting enemies, defending ally cannons, backline dps when enemy is snared, you know the normal roles of a light range cav.
Friend, the ERK did not have to be rewarded if the unit was really broken and everyone knew it. In fact, I’m sure most remember how strong that unit was. When I played a lot of Ottomans when the definitive edition came out, I remember that it was almost impossible to beat the FF of ERK, The unit literally killed everything, the “Obus” and Janizaro did nothing to it because it had 30% armor, better range, good rof, in addition to the bost with the dance both in creation time and damage, you could maser whenever you wanted a lot and do damage whenever you wanted, it was easy to have a good ff vs ff defense because of the 2 noble barracks and the militia dance, The Aztecs have received too many changes, practically that particular strategy is dead, but the civilization is still good because it also It has had many changes for the better in other aspects,
Well, although I would say that the FF with ERK is no longer as good as it was before, because they also nerfed some cards and the native militia, which particularly with Aztec was much stronger
But there is also the semi ff with jaguar and in general the Jaguar is as ridiculously strong as ERK was at the beginning of the definitive edition, in fact it is even stronger because at base it has very good statistics and with many percentage improvements the unit is a monster in the late game, even though it’s melee which is rubbish, its pathfiding is still very powerful because it has good speed and base health + promotion
Although there are SMURF players with Aztecs who increase the win rate of all, the civilization does not feel weak, no one says it is weak, also since there are smurf players from Aztecs, surely there must also be many civilizations,
Although perhaps they could improve the ERK a little, increase the negative bonus against infantry from 0.75 to 0.8, so as not to have such bad exchanges against other infantry units
But I am worried that the unit costs 1 population so in mass in composition vs composition it is still very good so any small buff will make it notice much more in that aspect? If before you practically had to have almost the same mass of skirmishers vs ERK so that you can realize that the skirmisher is a counter to the ERK,
All units that cost 1 population and are worth more than 150 resources in a composition of 200 population vs 200 population in someone who uses units cost a maximum of 125 resources with 1 population will lose vs the 200 population of an Aztec, because the Other civilizations almost do not have so many units that are good to cost 1 population, obviously there is the other factor which is the cost but that is in treaties or team matches, that difference in cost is not very noticeable when the economy is easier to shoot , especially the Aztec that has the Jaguar, ERK and coyote
Believe me my friend, even if I take this suggestion from you, all of above reply will still say the same things…
This one just for the people don’t know the basic skill HR.
For buffing ERK speed this situation can also be better.
Again the problem is if you let opponents cav freely disappeared in your map this is very bad you are controlled by opponent cav.
Normal role of light range cav can counter artillery + musk combo, HR melee cav and prevent raiding from them, both of these tasks ERK are not doing well. Do you have any suggestion that above of people won’t reject?
Just mass skirmisher or musk. Otontin has lower multiplier against musk and underperform most skirmisher in the late game. Arrow knight is not population efficient. Jaguar prowler will die before they get close. They have no obvious answers to infantry mass
then let me ask you this, why do you think the ERK in TAD was good?
what changed in DE that made it bad at 6 speed for you?
cause again ,everything that you want to make a comparison about has not changed. They even received less damage from skirms they then used to.
If you think they were good in TAD, despite the fact that everything would still be the same as they are now, then why were they good?
you know you if the cav is running away they are already doing their job right?