European Natives for European maps

[vanBladdeck]

Ok, i found 4 settlements: Farmstead, Priory, Fishing Village, Shepherd Village
note, that none of the units is trainable yet.

Farmstead:
unique unit: Farmer (pitchfork infantry)

• bonus for gathering at mills etc.
• Farmer is cheaper, but loses HP
  -Farmer gets 50% more attack

Priory:
unique unit: Friars (idk if its ranged or melee)
-villagers are 20% cheaper
-bonus for gathering from plantation etc.
-villagers und friar get mor HP

Shepherd Village:
unique unit: Rancher (i guess its a skirm)
-Explorer can train Sheepdogs, Sheepsdogs have higher attack the more sheep you own
-Ranchers trickle XP
-get a cow for every 3 minutes; max. 30 minutes

Fishing Village: (could build an TP there)

[CelticKeeper]

@Inocybe2755

I believe I have still the right to say on this forum I don’t want maps based on Europe

Yes you do.

@Inocybe2755

I still believe it’s dumb to have added ottoman to the game

Now that we have African (Sahel) maps I love that they added the Ottomans. I love fighiting as the Portugese with Ethiopian ally against Ottomans,Husa and Ethiopians. It would have been even better if we had the Berbers/Barbary pirates and Persians added to expand the diversity of dessert / African battles.

@ArrivedLeader22

in which European civs can still only send American native allies, even up till now

I hope they rectify this, currently their native attributes enhancement shipments still only appy to the NA civs. I do hope the devs will rectify this in an upcoming patch.

@ArrivedLeader22

That actually reminds me of something: those native allies are still “sent” from your home city. Sending Cherokees from London to the Americas? That “theme” was not coherent in itself from the very beginning.

Yeah When I play AoE3 I don’t see it as in AoE2 where you build a town,then a city ,then an empire, in that regard AoE2 is a lot more grand in scale. When I play DE3 I don’t see myself as building a new towns/city, I see myself as setting up a military camp then building a Frotified town to house and train my army in oreder to defeat the enemies army and fortifed town, nothing more. Thus if you send Cherokee as the British for instance, I don’t see the Cherokee as being sent from Britain, I see them as being sent from tribes within the New world that The British Empire has already allied with.

@Jonasnee8581

find new maps for a european expansion?

The maps in DE3 isn’t large in scale , they are tiny in compareson to DE2, once more the scale of DE3 is a lot more compact with each skirmish. Up untill the industrial age, cities and towns in Europe were far appart with swathes of woodlands and fields inbetween, hell even today driving though Poland , Germany or Norway you have vast acres of woodland or agricultural fields, sparsely dotted by small villages that look like they are trapped in time. (I love Europe)

Now in the 17th and 18th centuries this was even more prevelant than it is today, hundreds of battles took place all over Europe on secluded battlefields, Waterloo, Gusatvus Adolphuses campaighns were all fought on open fields surrounded by woodlands, only identified by tiny settlements in the area. Thus such maps in DE3 would work beautifully. I wish to create my military camp and fortrus and reenact these epic battles form history.

@Opdepov

I could see multiple ways to put European “natives” on the map.

These are brilliant ideas sir.

If you look at a game that I loved: Imperial Glory, you can easily see how Europe is beautifully presented in each battle. This I want in DE3 as well.

Imperial Glory

Just think, to fight the Jacobites in the Scotish Highlands, to Invade Spain as Napolion did, to face the armies of Austria on the fields a few kms off from Vienna, so many exciting battle to be fought inbetween forrests and on the fields of Europa.

[ArrivedLeader22]

@CelticKeeper

Yeah When I play AoE3 I don’t see it as in AoE2 where you build a town,then a city ,then an empire, in that regard AoE2 is a lot more grand in scale. When I play DE3 I don’t see myself as building a new towns/city, I see myself as setting up a military camp then building a Frotified town to house and train my army in oreder to defeat the enemies army and fortifed town, nothing more. Thus if you send Cherokee as the British for instance, I don’t see the Cherokee as being sent from Britain, I see them as being sent from tribes within the New world that The British Empire has already allied with.

Yeah that’s my point.
The “small town” you start with can be literally a small town, or a military base, or a forward outpost. This even applies to previous AOE games (most historical battles did not start with a town center and a few villagers, but the game still represents it this way).
When it comes to the shipment mechanics, you still need supplies and reinforcements from your home country if you are a European nation fighting in Europe.

@CelticKeeper

If you look at a game that I loved: Imperial Glory, you can easily see how Europe is beautifully presented in each battle. This I want in DE3 as well.

I personally would hope AOE3 to become the encyclopedia of early modern history, which of course includes Europe.
There were games like Empire/Napoleon Total War or Cossacks, and these are brilliant games. But Total War games have a very limited scope, and Cossacks are made by a much smaller group which inevitably makes the game less polished than AOE (and also very focused as well), though it’s still a great game. AOE3 really has the potential to be such a game if handled well.
It’s not that I dislike colonial history. I enjoy that a lot. I just hope it should be a part of a bigger picture, not the entire picture.

[KingStarscream9]

I agree that the colonization theme can be expanded upon or else there would be no where else to go in adding to the game. I do think the original spirit of the game should never be forgotten. The expansions released all follow a general theme: The Europeans went there and built empires.

[Moonshadow7475]

Yes, inca vs Japan battles are known for their historical accuracy.

[VotelessClub77]

@Jonasnee8581

as far as i am concerned new DLC comes with new Maps, would be bizarre not to have that.

so with that in mind where would you find new maps for a european expansion?

To be fair the new maps are added in part of the general update: you don’t need the DLC to play them. As of DE, the DLCs included only Civs and Historical Battles (I guess Campaigns would work too).

I’m not sure I see the point of Europeans maps, there is probably nothing mechanically that would not be possible to do on one of the other continent in the game, nor esthetically (the Fauna and Flora isn’t that different from North American maps/Siberia, etc.).

If they include them though, my preference would be with Mercenaries (not as the game mechanic they are right now, but as units that does not need pop, exactly like Natives) or Revolutionaries (any form of rebels on the land would do, like you Jacobite exemple. The idea is to have factions that have little or no loyalty to the faction ruling the lands they are in.

[UpmostRook9474]

If there are European map, the European natives should be there.

Before this, I think the game should focus on Asia and Africa first.
Still lacking Jiangnan, Sichuan, Yungui, Ryukyu, Luzon and Formosa (modern Taiwan) in east Asia.
Even missing the whole central and west Asia where Ottomans and Russians played the big role.
Maybe Greenland and Lapland are good choices too besides Asia and Africa.

Asian natives should be more and not only for religion.

• Ainu people in Hokkaido rather than Zen (this map should name Ezochi actually).
• Tibetan Buddhism in Manchuria, Mongolia and Himalayas rather than Shaolin and war elephants.
• Theravada Buddhism in Ceylon, Parallel Rivers and Indochina.
• Korean semi-civ in Korea.
• no mention the natives in Siberia, etc.

[Jonasnee8581]

@UpmostRook9474

Still lacking Jiangnan, Sichuan, Yungui, Ryukyu, Luzon and Formosa (modern Taiwan) in east Asia.

these are map suggestions i guess?

wouldnt be oppose to more asian maps. or for that matter oceania area maps.

[Skadidesu]

@Inocybe2755

This game should not have european maps.

That’s like your opinion.
There were probably enough people that were against the addition of Asia or the Native American Civilisations.

@Inocybe2755

Several design (for example french courreur des bois for the french) make absolutely no sense outside of the new world.

But Cuirassier make sense in the new world?
Half of the units only make sense in an European Theatre.

It seems like the game was originally planed without a Colonial Theme but than changed later.

But generally I think not liking new content is unfair.
I think it makes people that want certain kind of content more happy to get it than it makes people “sad” that don’t want it.
Especially if you can just choose not to play on the new maps by not buying the DLC.

@Jonasnee8581

Nationalities, that otherwise dont really make sense as full factions

Makes sense. Could also work for sub/trans national identities like Romani people or nationalities that weren’t independent like Czechs or Irish.

@Jonasnee8581

Ideologies, such as legitimist, republicans, nationalist etc.

I think those don’t work as settlements. You don’t have a bunch of republicans just sitting around in a place waiting to be allied with a monarchy.

@Jonasnee8581

Religion, such as catholic or protestant

Yes but not the two you listed.
Smaller religious groups that were not the main religion of one of the major civilisations. But it might be hard to pick because most of them weren’t that militaristic. Some of them could also work in American maps.

Or sub groups of those. Like the Order or Malta would make for a perfect Minor Civilisation.

Mercenary Camps

Another option would be to make mercenary camps with unique mercenaries. Those would cost Coin but 0 population like normal Minor Civilisation units.
Than you could have something like “Saxon Mercenary Camp”.
Not sure how well that would work if Minor Civilisation units would suddenly cost Coin. And also should they be tagged as Mercenaries and or Natives?

[Mahazona]

This is why ottomans should be in game.

Ottoman-Portuguese War - Age of Colonization DOCUMENTARY

[IcarusDuCer]

aren’t they already in it?

[Mahazona]

Im responding to the people who are saying its stupid to have them in aoe3.

[IcarusDuCer]

I bet those people who think ottomans being in the game is stupid, love seing the united states, a civ which was veeery little reason to be in the game, like yikes

Italians would have been a better choice…

but no, the american devs could not handle the fact that US wasn’t present during older times, so this is the coping mechanism

[Skadidesu]

Potential Minor Nationalities

Romani People

It’s hard to depict them without falling into prejudice so I won’t speak for them, but I think they are an important part of Europe history.

Sami People

They live in the north of Scandinavia and are famous for their Reindeer.

Units

• Sami hunter: Archer that is strong in melee

Technologies

• Reindeer husbandry: Unlocks Reindeer herdable

Basques

Unique nationality that lives in the French-Spanish border region. They are linguistically completely isolated.

Units

• Guías de Navarra: Skirmishers maybe with the State Militia mechanic of getting more HP in groups.

Technologies

• Masters of the ocean: All ships are n% cheaper

Potential Minor Religious Groups

Order of Malta

The Order of Malta is to this day a Sovereign subject of international law without any land.
Most AoE3 players know them for the first AoE3 campaign.

Units

• Hoop Thrower: High damage but low rate of fire Grenadier

Hussites

Late Medieval and Early Modern Religious movement in Bohemia (Czechia)

Units

• Hussite wagon: Armoured wagon that increases the range resistance of nearby Infantry. (Does not apply to cavalry) Does not stack.

Technologies

• Technology that spawns crossbows each time one of your building is destroyed (the number is depending on the building type)

Anabaptists

Religious movement of Central Europe that also includes the Amish people. Because a lot of them migrated to the new world they could be a potential Minor Civilisations there too.
Their none violent nature could be implemented in interesting ways.

Units

• Anabaptist priest: Instead of healing they slow down enemy units similar to the Hausa Griot.

Technologies

• Technology that gives settlers/villagers an aura that slows down enemy units movement and attack speed
• Technology that gives more XP crates over time (up to 30 minutes)

@IcarusDuCer

I bet those people who think ottomans being in the game is stupid, love seing the united states, a civ which was veeery little reason to be in the game, like yikes

No normally the Ottomans or Germany are used as an argument to prove that AoE3 was never only about Colonialism.
The best argument for the USA are the Lakota, which never fought anyone but the USA, and the Indians that are completely based on the 19th century.

@IcarusDuCer

but no, the american devs could not handle the fact that US wasn’t present during older times, so this is the coping mechanism

Which is very stupid. The game is already not historical in any way already.
The depiction of Germany basically predates the Dutch already in the base game while the British have Longbows next to Musketeers.

But the clearest historical differences are in the Expansions.
The Aztec only last until 1520, a time period where the Lakota neither had horses, guns nor were even living in the place the live now. The Lakota were introduced to the horse around 1730.

It’s the same with Japan and India. Japan depicts the country before the Edo period which starts in 1603, even predating the Qing Empire that China clearly depicts. India is obviously based on the Sepoy Uprising of 1857 and has units like the Gurkha which were established after 1816 by the British, never were Indian, and still exist in the British Army today.

[ArrivedLeader22]

Or there is another veeeeeeeeery unlikely possibility: thinking a design is stupid does not necessarily mean hating them. Or vice versa.
I think half of the designs of the entire AOE series are stupid.

[ArrivedLeader22]

You should show this to those who think the game should only focus on Europeans colonizing the new world so no European maps no European natives no European civs who did not colonize, but Ottomans in Americas okay.
It is these people who undermine the justification of including Ottomans, not those who question them by the fact that Ottomans are already in the game.

[Jonasnee8581]

i always knew this was going to be a controversial topic due to the nature of it but it ended up being so in an entirely different way than i had imagined.

like guys, its okay to disagree but try to be as nice as possible to each other

[OperaticShip743]

Napoleonic Era had European maps and was thought after Asian Dynasties (I think it was an unofficial expansion). A Napoleon campaign would be nice. AOE-3 is not only about colonialism, but about military conflicts in general during the modern age.

[OperaticShip743]

@vanBladdeck

Fishing Village: (could build an TP there)

It would be nice if it was only on the banks of rivers or oceans. (On water maps)

[RevanShan]

European maps should come. Sooner or later.