Do you also want to nerf Skirms because they’re trash and most of the time the best solution against ranged units?
What you’re saying is just not how AoE2 works. Pikes and Skirms get their value from being able to counter specific units very hard while being horribly bad against (a lot of) other units. There’s nothing wrong with them being good against a lategame unit. This is not Starcraft!
Have your ever tried to fight with Onagers against Hussars? They for sure get countered by a trash unit. Yeah they can land some good ground attacks (just like elephant can defeat some pikes), but it’s never cost effective.
You stop elephant production for like 1-2 minutes and use the awesome eco that allows you to spam elephant in order to set up the production of another unit. From there on you get a little less elephants and a little bit more of the other units.
Honestly you seem to just throw random arguments in here to make your point, so I’m not even sure if it’s worth responding to them. Anyway:
Trust me: The stage where you can spam elephants is also the stage where you can easily transition. So what’s your point here? If the game doesn’t reach the stage where people go elephants it doesn’t matter for the discussion here anyway.
Yeah, 1 Onager shot can kill some hand cannoneers, but what does that have to do with the discussion? 1 bombard cannon can whipe out every onager before it even gets to shoot. I don’t think throwing in random counter units gets us any further.
Btw I dont think hand cannoneers are that great of a choice to support elephants. Either go for the Champions I mentioned or some ranged units with arrows. Hand cannoneers are not in a good spot in general right now and they’re also much better if the enemy has to run at them (which they wont if there are elephants in front of them)
I don’t know about you, but I consider +50% HP (it’s even more than that), trample damage (huge in big fights) and bonus against buildings quite a bit stronger…
Honestly that would make them (maybe even a lot) weaker than they are right now…
Being resistant to arrows is much more important for a lategame frontline unit than not having a melee counter (which is horrible against arrows btw.)
That’s wrong. High cost prevents them from being used in 1v1. Lack of teamgames prevents them from being used in teamgames.
There’s nothing wrong with elephants. Remember, they even got nerfed (-2 damage) when DE came out. I’m not sure if that was necessary, but it shows that IF there was a problem with elephants it was them being too strong in lategame situation, not them being too weak.
Dude, you you start assuming that both players are playing well for your arguments. Of course I can make up situations where unit X sucks if their owner uses a braindead approach while the opponent is playing clever. Even then I think it#s not as easy to ignore elephants in front of your base as you make it look like.
No, they don’t. If they do it comes down to a lack of upgrades. You can never fight with Arbs against FU skirms unless you heavily outnumber them and even then it doesnt feel good.
If you elephants and the opponent hasn’t upgraded his pikes you will still wreck him…
Heck, even if he has fully upgraded Halbs you will wreck him if he’s not able to outnumber and outproduce you.
Camels makes absolutely no sense from a realistic point of view
scorpions already have a bonus and if it get’s more you will probably cry about elephants being useless because evil scorpion shoot them down way too fast.
Hand cannoneers might be a decent option, but why fix something that isnt broke?
Noone has time to kite single units in lategame situations - also if the opponent has time to micro single units to lure away elephants, please assume that the elephant player has time to give new orders to elephants and prevent that from happening.
Also Paladings are just the same as elephants in the scenario you mentioned. They will kill a single Halberdier, but they will die easily against a group of Halberdiers.
What else are Halbs supposed to do???
Trample damage is actually huge here and it is why Halbs need to do that much damage. They would get totally slaughtered in mass battles by elephants if they didnt.
Yeah, the devs went “no idea why, but let’s just give Halbs a big bonus against elephants”. That’s probably what happened…
It rather seems that your understanding of the game isn’t good enough to understand why such numbers are necessary.