If you read the thread then you should know it’s what I think. I said Voobly isn’t relevant because the eles are different in there, and it shouldn’t be swept under the rug.
If the elephants serve the same purpose on DE and on Voobly in teamgames, it literally does not matter what halbs do against them. If you were arguing Paladins are too good against them, that’d be a whole different ordeal because both units share similar use.
edit: Fyi people in teamgames will still take fights with Paladin against Halbs sometimes, even if the unit is siginificantly weaker and halbs deal a lot of damage to them.
Saying this is like all in or nothing right? Well, it’s true you can counter BE with Cav Archer. It’s also true you can counter BE pretty good with hit and run Arbalesters. Just a few examples of how a slow moving unit is countered by faster moving range.
Pop efficient meatshield is the whole selling point of BE. What’s the argument even?
Btw not enough resources also exists.
Dude, don’t join discussion when you don’t read post and comment like a robot. Roll up and read Ptee92 post to understand my reply to him properly. You just wasted time arguing to end up agreeing with my point.
In DE, eles take 1 more hit to kill halbs. The question is whether it makes eles non-viable or not (I don’t think it’s the case), not to ignore the change.
1 hit more literally does not matter in teamgames as explained before, trash units become invalid option.
But the time you kill the elephants, they will have enough time to inflict major damage to your base. Also watch this (that you should have watched before answering but whatever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DztmWyRSSo0) tell me how knights (or heck, even paladin) could have eaten that much arrows?
That’s exactly why the population limit is important. Also eles can be self-sufficient
I read it. And mentioned why your answer is wrong: eles can easily defend themselves, while siege weapons can’t.
If you could stop claiming people agree with you when they clearly don’t that would be dandy.
I kinda have mixed opinion to this. On one hand I agree with you trash unit is kinda weak in late game. On the other hand I see them not as invalid as per claimed above, they are hard cost efficient counter to some of more expensive units. In order to drain their resource when they spam pop efficient unit you spam trash unit to answer. The million dollars question is how hard a counter is reasonable? In the case BE vs Halb its more than 3:1 resource ratio but traded with 1.5:1 pop ratio only. It’s a cost-benefit problem. The point of balancing is to find a sweet spot between these two, taking into account other factors such as available tatical options they provide as well.
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The thread is mainly about 1v1. But yeah, nice to see one more person that can understand pop efficiency in there.
I take it you’re trolling me at this point, first you pick apart the TG comments, then you go back to 1v1 which I already explained also. Gj.
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Clearly you neither don’t read nor understand what is being discussed. I’m arguing against trash unit being labelled as useless in late game as Ptee92 claimed, then you joined discussion saying trash unit counters costlier unit, which agreed with the point I presented. Everyone who reads can see that. I’m tired going in circle having to repeat myself so I’m done arguing with you.
I 100% meant what I said, ie.you understand that eles>halbs for pop efficiency.
But your point only applies to light cavalry, and not to halbs. The fact eles can defend themselves allow them to keep the advantage over halbs in teamgames, while siege weapons can’t do anything to light cav. So against their respective counter, in TG, light cav remain relevant, while Halbs do not. What is relevant here isn’t that both halbs and LC are trash, but one counters a self-sufficient unit, while the other targets vulnerable units.
One last summary:
1v1 games:
Elephants are too expensive to be realistic option just like Cataphracts, Paladins and many many other units in the game, due to the limited gold as well as the economy they require to be produced.
Teamgames:
Elephants are major late game power house unit, just like Paladin, Cataphract and many others. This is due to unlimited gold as well as long games. Trash units are not useful in teamgames unless you’re already losing the game, in which case they serve a purpose of stalling.
Elephants are just the same units, even if it takes 1 more hit to kill halberdier still.
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Good summary 
I just fear HighPingLord isn’t going to like it xD
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Welp, they can be useful. And if you really think that they are too expensive there are 2 civs made to make them more easily buildable (not to mention both Catas and Paladins are more expensive to upgrade).
No, they are weaker than they were in HD, even if not by much, hence why they don’t need further buffing.
Guess nothing will change your mind as you’ve experience from games of your level where elephants are actually valid. Not understanding efficiency and optimal play might be one of the reasons you keep thinking like this as well as not experiencing how elephants are dealt with in 1v1 games normally as well as how impossible task you’re trying to achieve in itself to get to elephants in 1v1 game.
edit: Perhaps this halb hate also comes from same place where someone denied your elephants with halberdiers.
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A bit childish with a trace of emotional vulnerability to bring up into a debate but ok. You can do bettee than that. I wish to hear more valid discussions from you.
What I said is based on what Viper did. But feel free to go on his stream and explain him how much of a noob he is to use unefficient tactics then.
I never wrote I hate halbs. I’m just aknowleding the fact the elephants were slightly nerfed vs halbs in DE, but that unlike what the OP claims, it doesn’t mean we should nerf halbs.
Or he read the painfully long thread where I tried to explain how Rattan archers are more pop and gold effective than arbs, and that they can win many fight arbs do lose, and you kept replying it’s not cost-effective because of the +25 wood cost even tho wood is less important than gold.
Aren’t you guys both against the proposed change here?^^ (making halbs weaker against elephants)
I also feel like you’re missunderstanding eachother. Ptee92 didnt say elephants are never an option in 1v1 - he just said under normal circumstances they usually are not (which I think is right). CactusSteak2171 just wanted to point out that there are cases where they can by used (which is true as well I guess).
Same for trash in teamgames.
Well - that’s just my perspective, you can also go on fighting each other xD
The funny thing is that you react to that, but you dont react to good arguments xD
Anyway, feel free to make fun of me.
Btw since you brought it up earlier: I dont even feel like a good player. It’s just that my rating suggests that I’m better than 90% of all players (I think even 95%, but I rather aim too low), so I guess it’s not that bad, especially considering that I spend much more time watching the game and thinking about it rather than actually playing - so it’s pretty likely that my mechanical ability is holding me back. So I’m totally fine with you calling me bad like this:
I just wonder if you’re not shooting your own foot here, because you’d need to be extremely good (lets say top 200) in order to qualify through your own standards.
I like discussing, but as CactusSteak2171 also said, you seem to just repeat your opinion over and over again without reconsidering anything, so going a more cocky route seems to be the only possible way to handle you. Logic doesn’t seem to work.
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