Feudal all in feels terrible specially for newbies or mediocre players

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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ideal aoe game

Dark age: Economy/build order/gameplan
Feudal: Economy harras/playing around
Castle: Breakdown/economy swing/fight swing
Imperial: Late game/siege focused war

Having knights, archers, rams, special ranged units, MAA ignoring tc/tower dmg in feudal, ignoring pretty much everything its just terrible, these units need to be in castle and landmark working as stable or archery or barracks need to be reworked

i see england landmark, england archers coming, my counterpart its very expensive and have 3 times craft time against that (stable + horses)

playing against french, i have a few spearman my spear never will reach knights movement speed and will finish following these units around my base the whole feudal time

playing against zhu xi all in, my horse, spear and archers will die and cost more i have no answer for that 20 archers and 3 rams its gg or dmg its massive

And again the game finish with 3 rams these no one can touch it

In aoe4 gold or plat rank, you either play agressive feudal civs with big advantage or not you not play the game

Want more players playing aoe4? make it slower, let people at least build a mini base, at the end if the other player its better will still win in another 10min, being dead at min 10 its just bad

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A predictably defensive game is also boring, the average game is not 10 minutes. Dedicate yourself to improving your resource optimization, that also makes RTS fun and challenging.

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Yes you have a point early man at arms and french knights are so broken if played correctly.For longbow and archer rush just stop gathering gold and pour all you resource into horseman and archer mass.

French knights are really big problem in this game they can kill villagers with 2 hits and they can escape without dying to tc arrow fire.Game mostly ended for you when you are one villager behind.

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Correct its not only because the unit its way too strong its also because have faster craft time
Works in the same way with longbow these are cheaper and have 8 seconds craft time while my horse as ottoman have 30 seconds craft time and cost almost 3 times more

The landmark alone its worth about 340 wood (Wiki source) so when we both reach feudal i have 340wood disavantage almost a 2tc worth of disavantage

Im playing better i learning check opponent landmark at around 3min of the match but even with that its so hard to counterpart his strat because again advantage its so big and not even mentioning behind of that he have even more bonus as defense civ like towers range and buffs, or tc range shoot, so his wood line seriously safe

When i see someone saying “its easy to counterpick learn to play” im literally following top players vods matchups to see what they do, demu as example lost at 12min and call it gg against hre mas maa, he said he have no chance to deal with that in any situation or strat as ottoman

And i not see ottoman as issue, i see some civs having way too much advantage, delhi its strong in feudal but his defenses are weak so delhi its open for being raided

Byz zxu english french hre, are defensive, agressive, eco boost, craft boost all at the same time

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That is basically one of the main differences between AoE 2 and AoE 4. If you make game slower and rework every production landmark, then there would be a lot of people quiting game because it would be becoming “AoE 2 2”. There is no way to have all people happy.

You must also consider that any change in the game will affect low and high ranks. In high ranks, French/English All in are far from being the best strategies. I am main French, and I love playing agressive, but this strategy is not as good as it seems. Obviously, against a gold player it is an easy win for me, but some people can just turtle and go FC and then you can’t deal with Castle Age Knights if you don’t go Castle age yourself. There is a reason for French to be the worst civ in the game by far (said by almost all pro player)

It is true that Otoman is an slow civ, specially weak in feudal age. I have been playing for almost a year and I have lost against Otoman only once in this time. Add me in the game if you want, we can discuss it better and maybe watch how you do.

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For new players, I suggest just to focus on keep producing villagers (i.e. not to idle your TC) and keep spending most of your resources, ideally to keep producing army. Only after you got a reasonably linear villager count curve, you worry about other factors like matchup or strategy.

Take French vs your spearman civ as an example, you are supposed to be able to produce way more spearmen than his knights guarding different position. A French knights costs 140 food 100 gold and takes 28/35s to produce. Your spearman costs 60 food 20 wood and takes 15s to produce. You should have close to double amount of his knights count if your production is done properly. The thing you should focus on is just keep producing spearman, at the same time never stop producing villagers under knight pressure.

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I have no idea other aoe, this is the very first rts i ever play, i just giving feelings about balance and tempo in this game, if people are worried to play 30min average match i can take it, but i see other games where actually are longer like csgo, dota, league or even rainbow six. My main game its dota and at first 10 min its called early game, in aoe4 10min means being viable to be dead. So while most popular games have that tempo, that match duration (10min early 20min mid 30+ late) i cant see issue having aoe4 having similar tempo

about whats popular, winrate here its the updated list.

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These data its not all correct because there are a lot of conquer games to take it seriously, but past season was pretty much x2/x3 english pickrate vs second most played (yea you are reading right most played civ have x2 or x3 more pickrate vs second)

So hearing french, english are bad because pro players doesnt pick it in leagues, but while normal matches from bronze to conquer there are super popular i dont know. Being honest these leagues in this game are not even relevant no one watch it

I understand your point and i agree, if you make safer feudal you open to fc every civ, thats bad. My idea its pretty much not having super strong units in feudal at point where they ignore every tool as defense you have, specially if your civ, doesnt have defense, and like i said im playing ottomans and have nothing, actually nothing in feudal many people told me ottoman its great in feudal if i take eco numbers, landmarks, defense, units stats compared to most agressive feudal its not even close i have 50% of disavantage on everything specially on tempo reaching a fair fight against for example mass archers, or mass knights, first knight reach my base at min 4:30 and every 40 seconds will spawn another one, when he have around 5 or 6 he can actually stop and aim for castle age, while in my side to stop that i need to burn double resources than him while being behind of tempo

So its either waiting for opponent mistake because he just sucks and my self booming/castle or trying to fight that and loosing every fight in feudal

This apply ottoman vs hre, zxu, french, english, byz and big etc

PD: sure thing going to add you
PD2: Being honest im skipping every match against all in, so like you said most players like fast matches, fast agression in aoe4, i dislike that so much at point where i dont care loosing mmr i just surrender (Thank god the button exists)

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Issue its not workers, not gathering resources, problem its tempo and unit being weaker than opponent, english have more range, french have knights, hre have maa + movement speed, ottoman have buffs but cost more resources and that boost can die (mether)

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to my understanding, the Ottoman Military School that produces free spearman at beginning make the matchup favorable to Ottoman. (it was the case a 2-3 season ago when i play French.) In feudal, Ottoman Sipahi is strong and u can use together with a Mehter. There is nothing stop you from counter raid the aggressor.

You may go to aoe4world use the video finder to find Ottoman vs ANOTHER_CIV to see how top players play Ottoman, and simply copy their opening?

I presume you are newbie as u said in the title, but if you are pro in another RTS, please just ignore all the things I said.

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did that and only found once one ottoman winning against english archers all in strat and being honest with you was because because he have 500+ mmr more than opponent

disavantage its huge, read on top i know the stats, timings and craft time.

And im not saying what im doing its perfect its very far from that im saying same skill level players having the same issues and same non perfect gameplay, ottoman sucks so bad

And i assume any civ who doesnt have that spike in early feudal its just dead

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Omg so long text haha.

I still feel there must be something you are still not doing ok. I’m Diamond III French and my Average duration is 20 mins with French, and up to 22-25 with English or Rus. This game is not usually as long as a DOTA or Lol game, or even an AoE 2 game.

Yeah, we know English pick rate is the highest because is the main civ of the game, and the easiest one. But even than way, the most popular build order is not Counsil, but king-2TC-FC, it is far better. Never said english are bad, I have 100% winrate over the last 3 months with them, specially with the build I told you, but with that build all games are far longer than 10 mins.
French have been improving since they gave them an extra villager, 5% discount in economy and the Trade buff, but still is not like they were the best civ. I played a Tournament this year and fought twice against French and won both. It is not like an easy win.

I still don’t agree to eliminate armoured units of feudal. I don’t feel it is the real problem, and I don’t know who told you that, but Otomans are nothing in feudal. Only a pro player can use them well in feudal, otherwise they have nothing. As I told you, I only lost once against Otomans in a year and it was not in feudal. Every time I play Otoman I know that I have to press all I can before Castle Age to win. I really thing the problem is The civ itself.

PD: Nice :smiley: I already accepted u.
PD: Ok, let’s play and see what we can do.