Fire Lancer and stuff for Jurchen as a new civ

[KarstHillFort77]

This picture of a Joseon period Korean flail cavalry could give you some idea about its reach. Flail cavalry shouldn’t be a UU since it was used by many North Asian peoples like the Tanguts, Khitans, Mongols, Jurchens/Manchus, Northern Chinese, and Koreans. In fact both the flail cavalry and the firelancer could serve as potential regional units for East Asian civilizations.

And this is a Korean demonstration of how it was probably used on horseback

고구려기마무예 편곤 - YouTube

Another Korean demonstration of the flail, showing how it managed to break a water melon behind a rattan shield (demonstration starts at 19:31)

역사스페셜 - 이것이 조선의 무예다, 무예도보통지 - YouTube

[KarstHillFort77]

Your proposal of the firelance as a unique tech for pikeman is certainly interesting and it offers new dimensions to the use of pikeman.

Alternatively, the firelance could be a regional unit shared by Jurchens and Chinese (possibly Koreans as well), and it’s basically a flamethrower similar to the fireship, can be considered as its counterpart on land, and deals bonus damage against siege and buildings.

[KarstHillFort77]

We have a lot of melee cavalry UU as well, such as Tarkan, Boyar, War Elephant, Leitis, Konnik, Coustillier, Keshik, etc. It would be hard to make the Iron Pagoda distinct.

[TheConqueror753]

Trample damage while moving could be an option. It could replace Paladin though, freeing up space for another unique unit.

[UpmostRook9474]

@KarstHillFort77

Flail cavalry shouldn’t be a UU since it was used by many North Asian peoples like the Tanguts, Khitans, Mongols, Jurchens/Manchus, Northern Chinese, and Koreans.

I have never stated that the flail is the own weapon of the Jurchens.

@UpmostRook9474

The flail or chain whip is the iconic traditional cavalry weapon in North China.

There are camel archers for Berbers, axe throwers for Franks, plumed archers for Mayans, which mean the UU is not necessary to be unique in the real world. The point is they used them well or not, and Jurchens surely used flails and even introducing them to a Manchu empire in AoE3. Introducing them as UU is making sense and interesting.

The problem of the fire lances is that they are too much impressive as weapons invented by the Chinese. It is similar to give the Persians the Indian melee elephants that the Indian civ doesn’t have. So the better way of them is be a regional unit or an editor unit. That is different from the flail cavalry in some degree.

[TungstenBoar]

You can call them Manchu if that makes you feel any better. They are a people from North China basically and they buklt the Jin and Qing dinasties

[TungstenBoar]

Tbh I would love to see a grenadier regional unit

[Mahazona]

@TheConqueror753

Trample damage while moving could be an option

This would be a very bad idea either its useless or op depending on how you use it and its too much micro.

@KarstHillFort77

We have a lot of melee cavalry UU as well, such as Tarkan, Boyar, War Elephant, Leitis, Konnik, Coustillier, Keshik, etc. It would be hard to make the Iron Pagoda distinct.

Most of the uu’s are cavalry as only the rich could afford horses. unless its a meso or a militia army based civi its perfectly fine to have a cavalry uu.

@KarstHillFort77

Flail cavalry shouldn’t be a UU since it was used by many North Asian peoples like the Tanguts, Khitans, Mongols, Jurchens/Manchus, Northern Chinese, and Koreans. In fact both the flail cavalry and the firelancer could serve as potential regional units for East Asian civilizations.

pretty much all weapons are like this name one civi in the world that did not use bows axes spears or swords.

[TheConqueror753]

@Mahazona

This would be a very bad idea either its useless or op depending on how you use it and its too much micro.

Probably low level damage every time it enters a new tile, maybe have each enemy unit damageable once every few seconds.

[DukeOfLorraine]

So a reach comparable to a regular polearm, not an extra long pike that allows several ranks to attack at once. It should not have range.

Maybe giving this unit a quick but relatively weak attack could do the trick. S

[StereoQuasar163]

did the jin have fire lancers??

[TungstenBoar]

Yeah they did. The Jin usage of fire lances made the Mongols use them later