I’ve just finished playing all 3 campaigns from this new DLC and would like to share my opinion here. Nothing much elaborated, since this post is simply an improved version of some notes I took while playing. It starts commenting on the scenarios in their order, pointing some good and bad stuff. In the end, I added some general thoughts and conclusions.
Again, it’s not very crafty or rigorous. I just want to share my thoughts and also invite fellow players who played (or are playing) the campaigns to do the same.
Liu Bei
First, the presentation. I felt the campaign map could be a bit more simpler. Less visual details, more contrast between colors. The campaign descriptions got downsized because they don’t fit the screen. People with poor vision like myself will struggle to read them. The Decisions tab sometimes don’t display what you did in the scenario. In that case, I believe something more traditional could work better.
Cutscenes though are maybe the best innovation in the whole DLC. The traditional Chinese Ink drawings are nice. And going full screen was also a good move: you get to feel the story way better. Specific kingdoms color highlights (green, blue, red) gives a really cool touch.
Narrator: I don’t know Mandarin but this guy sounds like someone who knows. The way names are pronounced is really remarkable. It makes you want to say “Tzao Tzao” all the time.
Now, the actual gameplay…
Scenario #1 is like many of the traditional ones in the game. You have a hero and some troops and must travel to a base to claim it. Then the objective is revealed and you start defending from raids and training troops etc. Nothing revolutionary nor disruptive. Side objectives pop up but fortunately not in a frenzy (more on that later).
The map is visually very beautiful. New trees, rocks, cliffs, and water colors really helped shape the geographical identity of not only this scenario but the whole campaigns. The game was indeed missing new terrain assets and I’m glad devs finally delivered them.
Worth noticing you have a decision to make in I guess every scenario. Those usually involve alliances, choosing heroes who will follow you through campaigns or even deciding who lives and who dies - this is some cool feature I believe got improved from Chronicles.
#2 scenario is when the tech tree opens up and you start to know what this civ can do.
You get the first taste of political scheming and frail alliances, something that shows up in many scenarios. It is portrayed in a realistic way.
The War Chariot is a strange unit. Pulled by horses yet slow; fires a lot but isn’t deadly as massed Cav Archers; Cavalry with low HP despite being a big vehicle.
#3 is a good scenario. You have pressing matters right at the start and must rush to meet a character and get him onboard to save a village under attack. This is how you do proper timer, not setting a countdown clock.
Devs also managed to struck perfect balance between campaign difficuly (1 sword) and the humble origins of the protagonist. You’re never entirely on the offensive and sometimes has to run away or to help others.
#4 scenario felt the best in Liu Bei campaign. No Villagers, limited resources and a lot of strategic decicions. Again, the soft timer that unsettles players in a good way. If you are not careful enough or takes too much time to move forward, it can really escalate into chaos on many fronts. It will give you the option of free play once the main objective is met but I guess it was not necessary. By the way, other scenarios could benefit from that.
#5 is really good.
It follows the formula of Jadwiga’s last (in my opinion thd most interesting improvement to scenario design) but in a manner I like most: instead of multiple side quests set at once, you get them gradually as you complete them and the clock runs.
It has a mid-scenario scene that plays out differently according to your success on the main goal in that first part. A nice way to change the course of the story ingame.
This time, the dramatic moral decision the player faces is the one with the highest stakes. It took me some time to decide and even then I want to replay it to do it differently.
What I think that made this one so good is its pace: eventful without overloading players with multitasking; against a powerful enemy that does not end up a grindfest. I’m glad it took me less than an hour to win.
Gameplay and cutscenes left you wanting to do things differently. Has some real replay value.
Overall I would rate it very good (with Jadwiga being perfect). Most unpleasant thing in my opinion was the pace of the story. Sometimes many characters pop up and not much context is given. My proposed solution is: make intros and outros lengthier. This way you can tell the whole story and set the stage of the scenario.
Cao Cao
#1 From the very beginning gameplay gives off strong Tamerlane vibes. You’re always the aggressor and the Wei kingdom is a raiding cavalry civ. I like it when scenarios go faster. Xianbei Raider reminds me of Kipchak while Tiger Cavalry is a really cool unit.
The character itself sounds like Guiscard, with a really good voice actor (if no the same that voices the Norman). So this a classical “we the bad guys” campaign.
Loved the sound effects during cutscenes - fires, screams, weapons. Background music, markedly drums, really makes you feel stakes are going to be higher for this ambitious warlord.
The outro is the darkest in the whole game maybe. Reminds me of the goriest events in Dostoevsky novels.
#2 This one in my opinion has the kind of trouble that irks me the most during gameplay: too much happening at the same time. Many new objectives pop up with almost no breathing/thinking room. You hear/read about a new objective and before you eve have time to start thinking how you will complete it there pops a new one. Now you have to decide which one is worthier. All this with the game running as usual.
Even Chronicles (which I love) is full of multitasking. I do not want to just complain, so I would like to humbly offer a practical solution: space objectives out. Task players with one, give them half a dozen minutes to plan and then, only then, reveal a new one.
Yet it is a very interesting and action packed scenario. Characters talk a lot too - and all the time. In this case, replay is needed but to understand what actually happened.
The same problem plagues the previous campaign. But while Liu Bei lacks context, this one provides maybe too much. In this case, the problem could be solved with one more scenario - or simply make a bigger one. This way you can spread events out in a manner they don’t feel all crammed.
Good thing most of these objectives are optional.
I believe the reference should be Liu Bei #5. It achieves it perfectly being succint and spacing events accordingly.
#3 Like Jadwiga #6 and Tamar #5, you run errands before the battle begins and I like it. The kind of scenario that suits civs with strong mounted units.
It brings back the night setting (which should come with some sort of torch lighting, grey player is hard to tell apart).
A little nitpick: you have to slay enemy army commanders but they’re… well, I will let you find out.
#4 You face many enemies, coming from all sides, but with the option to change the balance of power. A decision from a past scenario reared its ugly head, which is nice.
I noticed a bunch of UUs from a very old civ and thought “oh so they are cheating”. Then I checked players and saw one of the players was that civ. Really cool to see them in that context because they represent very well the kind of enemy in the mission. Whatever you do them will have impact in the following scenario.
At this point I could tell both this campaign and Liu Bei one are not groundbreaking regarding the way scenarios are designed. It’s traditional AOE2 play through and through. I don’t find it bad but I was expecting crazy stuff.
I’ve said nature looks really cool in those maps but cities are kind of unremarkable. It’s basically walls forming a perfect square and buildings filling in every corner. Made me think of some old RPG like Final Fantasy for SNES.
#5 The intro slides are very good, just like the outro one we see after #1.
Cao Cao is easily one of the most interesting, deep and multidimensional characters in the game (more than Rajendra, which I think is one of the best) but unfortunately the campaign is too short to fully paint him. Forgotten Empires may be saving money in the short run designing only 5 scenarios per campaign, but they’re losing much more on the long run when they neglect storytelling - in my opinion, one of the most important pillars to the success of the game.
It’s the same map but enemies are stronger (as usually is in the series) and with bases wth different setups.
But it’s not the same gameplay. A decision you could make in Green campaign now you can force your enemies to make. Good thing is you do not exhaust possibilities on first play of course so you can do it next time when replaying.
A blatant bug: an important decision from the past scenario didn’t carry over. It made this one way easier.
I didn’t like the length of this mission. Overall I felt it is an easy scenario. When I read the secondary objective, I mustered my troops and started doing upgrades and training new soldiers but when I reached the tasked place I found out I was tasked with a cakewalk.
The last scenario is usually the hardest or longest one in a campaign. It’s meant to be the final boss. But in Cao Cao, I must say it is a letdown. One of the easiest of the whole DLC. Not even transporting troops across a river (which is usually a pain) is problematic.
Great character. Arguably the vilest protagonist in the whole game but yet you get to like him.
I like the darker tone os this campaign. Overall, this one felt a little bit better than Liu Bei. Thanks to storytelling - which still felt incomplete. One more scenario or making a couple ones lengthier would help.
Sun Clan
#1 You can’t build a lot of buildings. You get new Villagers, troops and resources periodically but your Villagers are defenseless because the only defense they can build are Towers (unupgradable because of no Universities…)
This is really annoying because raiders keep harassing your workers often. And this is a mission where you are “on the hunt”, having to keep your troops out there all the time, both conquering and defending your conquests.
Also, there is a side objective that is sort of “locked” behind (sort of, soft of…) some pieces of the main objective, which risks you ending the scenario without the side objective if you are not careful enough.
This is the type of scenario that should have the option of free play, just like that one in Liu Bei.
The good news is that you’re under attack so often that eventually you lose what you got. Not hard to win but you can get overrun real quickly. I ended up with 4 Villagers (after getting almost 30).
I don’t like that sort of scenario where you have to rush through it to not end up stranded in a tug of war, but I get its appeal. And at least enriches the variety of gameplay - one of the weak points in the DLC.
Finally, you’re eventually punished for being successful, making matters way worse. By that time, you definitely have to rush your raids.
You have the option to defeat enemy raiders though the game does not insist with you to do so - a design mistake in my opinion.
One of the maps I didn’t like because of the urban landscape. The city where you have to fight is just squares perfectly placed. It lacks some distinction between its partsand the result is a boring visual and maybe some confusion about where you are. If someone tell me Chinese cities were built this way, ok, I’m fine.
There’s a decision labeled as important that didn’t seem to trigger anything at all. Here I would like to point to something that has become commonplace in recent DLCs: bugs that don’t allow campaigns to be played as planned. It felt like wasted time and effort.
(In some scenarios you get gifted a relic for the rest of the campaign and I find it irrelevant)
#2 You finally get to try the Fire Archer. Its fire trail is one of those cool visuals in the game.
The story is fairly distinct from the other two campaigns, taking place in itsown universe until the last scenario.
Storytelling this is a very good campaign, the only one where the narrative isn’t lacking context. It develops pretty well, with a good character arc, including a dilemma between family bonds and honor and the actual duties of a ruler. A case where few characters result in a story easier to told. Leaner is better.
I must say all those heroes offering themselves at the start of the scenarios stuff didn’t appeal to my taste. Ok, they’re strong and maybe people who love Three Kingdoms fictional universe know those guys and want/must to see them to feel they’re playing a 3K game but… I can do without everyone save for the 3 main characters. Most of those heroes don’t add much to story either.
It’s just Age of Empires II, classical one. Let me emphasize: normal, no-gimmicky AOE2. Heroes’ abilities are really an afterthought after you see what they do.
#3 By that point I could already tell all three campaigns were well planned and executed but end up rather conservative and lacking creativity. Had this been released in 1999 it would be a top one (Jean of Arc is basically find base, destroy enemy base), but after almost 30 years of scenario design changes, 3K feels dated.
One of the side objective is not pointed on the map. If it was told in a dialogue, well, it got lost. Too much information.
The crossing between your base and the enemy is a swamp where you can’t place your fortress and that’s some clever map design.
It’s a very good scenario anyway. Cool looking swamps, burnt villages, a limited start where you can’t simply sit in a safe space and start booming but rather have to balance aggression and restraint in the first part. Lots of options about what to do next. Enemy raids are not that annoying but you still have to be careful.
I like the Hall of Heroes looking. It’s a pity they have not introduced a new architectural style since The Last Khans (in 2019!) because whenever a new building shows up (or new skins, like Castles on Monasteries) is looks really nice - in my opinion better, than the original game ones. Here is a tip to devs: in the free upgrade preceding the next DLC, include new buildings. Players will be grateful and grateful people are more inclined to buy.
#4 The best in the campaign. Reminded me of some BFG scenarios where you have to take Greek islands but way simpler and straightforward. Plus, the background is a story of Vengeance.
Half of the job can be done via naval warfare but the scenario will only be won by land. The classical “enemy entrenched deep into his final fortress” that is usually the high on any given campaign.
A “big” map not by pure size but because of smart use of empty space. Besides the land or naval strategy dilemma, it gives you the option to flank your enemy through two possible paths. As direct and satisfying as traditional AOC/AOK maps.
I did not try but I think you could take a couple of the last objectives with the easier strategy. I would change that, increasing the distance between the beach and the Castles to increase the challenge. It’s far from a mistake at all but this way I proposed could force players to change strategies midway through the scenario and siege the enemy hideout with land troops.
#5
About the map recycling in the last scenario: it did not spoil the fun for me.
I mean, you could make some geographical changes, of course, focusing on one area or making the map bigger, but the three finales play very differently. You and your allies and enemies aren’t simply mirrored. It is much more like William Wallace #7 x Longshanks #5/#6 or El Cid #5 x #6 than Constantine XI x Fetih (which feels barren). Some secondary players don’t even show up twice.
In my opinion Sun’s finale is the best one. While in the other two you start relatively safe, this one has higher stakes right at the beginning. From what I can remember, Cao Cao behaves very differently and his bases are not the same. And Sun finale starts in a point several minutes ahead of the other two.
I would rank this campaign slighly higher than Cao Cao. So it is the best of the three.
Final considerations:
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Problems with new objectives popping up is that, after the first adrenalin rush some of them may cause, you reach a point you’re just bored and roll your eyes.
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I wish this campaign had some new kind of scenarios, even crazy ones. Plot, scheming and betrayals are always mentioned, but you don’t have a scenario like those in Battle for Greece or even Victors and Vanquished when you have to manage some sort of points system.
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Overall, the gameplay is just Age of Empires II, classical one. None of these scenarios will be copied for their innovative design. I don’t think it is bad per se and I intend to play it again in the near future, but I think Forgotten Empires missed an opportunity to push the game forward in a direction that actually matters. If the goal was to bring new players, why not please them with new type of scenarios?
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TOO many heroes. Ok, I got it, it is a big story, thousands of pages, but in the third mission I was really struggling to tell who was who and who did what. Took me some time to realize one of them couldn’t fight. This leads to the next point…
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These campaigns are short and the scenarios too. I remember getting past the hour mark in two of them. In my opinion, this model does not suits the size of the story being told. Characters come and go too quickly, almost of all of a sudden.
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Overall these campaigns are more than a mere Chronicles ripoff, what makes me think this was never intended for Chronicles. Only similarity shared with Chronicles is the map in the campaign menu. And the way it is, I don’t know… I’s rather just have the old AOE2 visual.
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Something I was afraid of when considering the lack of new architectural sets, voicelines etc was that quality would be lacking in some areas but overall everything is well done (though not always brilliant). None of the campaigns give the feeling work has been rushed or left unfinished (like some people believe Mountain Royals did). You can see actual hard work in a polished product. Props to the narrator and the voice actors too.
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I would really love to hear a new soundtrack. This is another point BFG got so damn right that I started finding many of the old tracks really boring. Chinese civs still get played old tunes from the base game instead of the Rise of the Rajas ones who sound way more Eastern. Not exactly a criticism but since FE went so far changing the aesthetics of the game, a new soundtrack felt necessary.
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I’ve read some people expressing their concerns about imersion-breaking stuff but there really isn’t anything that spoils the gameplay experience. You keep focused on the (many, maybe too many) objectives just like in any other AOE2 game.
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Witchcraft is used by enemies once in the start of each 1st scenario, giving them a buff. But there is not consistently casting a spell like in a RPG game. Also, it is nothing fancy visually - in Liu Bei #1, the map becomes a little bit shady and when you break the spell the Sun shines back like in common “summer” map. The effect on troops felt more like a reflection of people’s superstition, the same way you believe in positive thinking or one’s charisma. Or sacrifices, like in Battle for Greece. Anyway, devs could safely get rid of it and keep the DLC as it is. Unusual stuff, but really a nothingburger.
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Heroes have “super” abilities, and though I tried to influence battles with them, I found it to be more aesthetical than anything else. Maybe people who know how to micro can find a use for those skills.
They are helpful and have some nice visuals but nothing game- or immersion-breaking. Everything is so “classical AOE2” that you use these abilities a couple times and maybe keep awaiting for them to reload but then the game starts flowing like it usually flows and you end up forgetting about them. I was expecting the campaign gameplay to revolve around these abilities but overall they’re rather trivial.
There came a time I simply forgot about the heroes themselves. By the end of the last campaign, I left them at home because I did not find them very useful. So at least in my opinion those abilities don’t made a big difference save maybe for players who want to see that kind of stuff.
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Maps have an ideal size. They don’t make you travel long distances nor sacrifice space. Gameplay gets really smooth and I like it. I’ve never finished a campaign so quickly.
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The choices/decisions mechanism must be highlighted. Here they are way more interesting than in Chronicles. You decide to free people or keep them captive and even execute an enemy you captured or spare his life. In the first time I had to pause and think for a few moments before finally deciding. Then I started doing it #fortheplot.
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Story is more mature, and this is a welcome shift. It’s the kind of core featureI always enjoyed since I first played the game many years ago. To hear adults talking about adults issues in an adult manner keeps my interest high. There is even mention of “piss”. Something that may be small for some players but to me is key is a certain level of maturity but I didn’t like some “funny” dialogues or grown ass characters portrayed as spoiled teenagers in recent DLCs. Thank God there’s nothing of this stuff in this DLC.
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Here you notice storytelling done right: you have allies but they’re not your friends. Dialogue gives a very clear feeling of frail human relations and lurking treason that characterize times of social turmoil. In most campaigns you have allies that sound like friends which to me is kind of fake considering relationships are mainly political. Not this time.
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I think 15 scenarios, 5 each for each kingdom, weren’t enough to tell the whole story. It felt too much happened between slides and scenarios. Sometimes slides fail to contextualize what happened in the scenarios. Best example I can think outta the top of my head is the 3rd one in Liu Bei. One player behaves in such a way we are left asking ourselves: why? At the end of the scenario, cutscenes don’t provide an explanation. Just to be clear, this is a issue with multiple campaigns in the game.