First the Chinese, then Spain, and now Haudenosaunee please

As will be known, since de came out, the haud have had serious problems, to the point that they went from being one of the best civilizations of the TAD to being a bad civilization in DE. Although I personally consider the hauds to be a very acceptable civilization, they have very strong units and build interesting orders, in the mid game and late game I would be encouraged to say that it is the worst civilization of the game, worse than Aztecs or Russia, because they have practically no cards that improve their eco, nor factories or some large button economic improvement that drives them.

I was playing haud several months ago, until reaching metropolis level 131 and elo 1400 in multiplayer, I have some proposals to improve civilization, aiming to improve them in lategame and team games, always thinking of keeping intact the culture of this nation.

-Increase travois construction speed, at least 5 seconds, I find that the ability to get free buildings by age advance is very good and saves a lot of wood, you still need some kind of benefit, if you place 10 villagers in the community square producing travois, it is an expense of resources (if my calculations do not fail , 100 - 150 of wood approximately for each travois). On the other hand, USA possesses a similar ability with the capitol, but its buildings are built almost instantly.

-Improving oneida support, is one of the few economic cards that the hauds have in fortress age, and is quite expensive, but considering that a lot of gold is consumed to produce riflemen and musketeers on horseback and the tribal market can not improve its collection of resources like the rest of the civilizations unless cards are used. I believe that it can be improved in two ways, by improving the bonus of the large button “Cooperation” of the tribal market from a gold reduction of 10% to 20%, and/or by establishing that, once Oneida support has been sent, Town Centers and Trading Posts can be built through the travois produced in a community plaza, which would be a significant economic benefit.

-Move the ram to the Comercial Age, this unit is extremely undervalued, for its price and siege (and its 50% resistance at a distance) make it an excellent unit to besieve, but interestingly, it is available from Fortress Age, this unit I think should be in commercial age and would be a good additive to have an early siege , because the hauds only have tomahawks to bess. Of course, it should be nerfed if it moves to commercial and provide an improvement in fortress, and let’s conclude that it is a ram, it is not cutting-edge technology like a cannon to be in fortresses age.

-Provide a stable wood source, I believe that the hauds need a renewable wood source apart from the free travois, this can be improved in 3 ways, developers and advisors haudenosaunee can debate which is the best option.

The first alternative is to provide a charter like “Distributism” that works the same as it does for India and Russia.

The second is that, through an economic charter in industrial, it allows to build forests with 3000 of wood, with a maximum of 10 collectors and that it is able to be built by the travois engendered of a community plaza.

The third option, is to change the large button enhancement of Longhouse called Woodland Dwellers, instead of providing wood crates, should provide some kind of dripping of wooden passive. This would only be available in Industrial, and would be identical to the large button, coca plantations, available to the Incas in their estate.

I hope you agree with these proposals, that my ideas are to everyone’s liking and will be taken into account by the developers and haud advisors.

Thank you very much, have a good day.


There a lot of potential with Big Buttons.
For exemple:
Woodland Dwellers Ships 500 wood for every 10 minutes of game time (up to 30 minutes)
Changes to:
Ships 500 wood and gain a 1.5/s wood trickle for every 10 minutes of game time (up to 30 minutes)

This way the tech would be useful even for Treaty play, while still being an option for Supremacy.

Alternatively, they could had a clause that if the tech is researched after the X minutes mark, instead it does something else:
Woodland Dwellers Ships 500 wood for every 10 minutes of game time (up to 30 minutes). If sent after the 35 minutes, instead gain a 5 wood/s trickle.

This would be an immense fully useful concept to apply to the Aztecs, as they are plagued by Big Buttons that send units only and have nothing useful outside of an overpop strategy in Treaty right now.


About travois, hauds ones are free while USA has to pay the building wood cost.
The trickle big button could be 1,5 per longhouse. This way they get 22 wood/s, a great amount for them doubt to their wood cost units

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If you place the Community Plaza in the Founder Ceremony, and place 25 villagers, it takes 13 seconds for it to spawn a travois.
If you count how much wood you would get if those 25 villagers were collecting wood, you would have to do 25 villagers x 13 seconds x 0.5 (basic rate of wood collection), it would give you 162.5 wood per travois.
So no, they are not free.

And yes, I agree with the dripping of wood through the houses, it is a better benefit than waiting 30 min for 1500 wood than above, it costs you 250 food and 250 gold.

But you will have dancers with war song or fertility dance, they wont be cutting wood. Also 160 wood arent 600 as state or 400 for a farm.
About plaza I have thought spamming units on the HC site as Barracks or TC. This way they could be used on large maps

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You’ve got the Gift Dance, you can use it to get the 500/500/500 shipment.

Along with the wood saved from Travios, you should have plenty of wood.

Thats shipment is trash compared with 1300 wood of India. Also villagers waste time gathering food and coin that you dont need. while you are fighting you have to use war dance and fertility not xp one

It would be viable, if the haud and the lakota had specialized priests that could be in a community plaza, and if it had an infinite shipment of wood like the Incas.

Not more specialized priest please!!! Thats an aztec feature. Priestess can be there caused their pop cost and that incas are urban natives like aztecs (they are similar) but not more.
There was enough complaints about incas being an upgraded aztecs

Where are you spending your wood? Iro has less demand for wood than India 500/500/500 should be pretty good. Unless you’re making lots of Kanya Horsemen…and the extra coin couldn’t hurt with plants not being as upgradable.

@Quirriff Less demand??? Most iro units cost wood as mantlets, rams, kanyas and tomahawks while only 2 indian units cost wood. Also India get 2 free market upgrades and has 2 trickles plus large infinite crates. Both civs have battlefield construction that Hauds cant use effectively cause their lack of wood while India has mughal architecture (+portuguese) for cheaper buildings. With the indian shipment you can build 8 barracks but with the Haud one you can build only 2.


Not at all, india only needs wood for villagers, once you hit 99 villagers you don’t make any more, while hands require wood for units, unit have to be retrained as they die, and need to be replaced.

You can make Travois at Plaza which eschew all wood costs for buildings, I even use them for longhouses. Tomohawks don’t costs that much wood and their best unit the Jungle prowler doesn’t use any wood. It’s not like you’ll make 20 Rams at once.

You don’t need battlefield construction since you can just use Travois for everything; not spending 600 wood on plantations or not spending 250 wood on war huts makes quite a significant difference.

Wood saved from using travois can be used on units and upgrades. That’s what I mean by less demand.

And you still have a 500/500/500 shipment and gift dance if you need it.

You cant build with travois around the map, they are slow and have to be trained from the firepit and you can build FB quickly with forest prowlers. Having a melee cavalry that cost wood is a great cost of wood if you have to kill mass skirms, the same with Field canons that are the core of the Haud army.
Saving wood from buildings doesnt mean less demand, Indians can train every kind of unit without wood, not the case for Hauds. With India you will be floating on wood, not the same for Hauds

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PAULvsKYOSHI.age3Yrec (6,2 MB)

I would like to share this rec, for those interested, it is a game that I played yesterday with a friend of main Sweden, it is in the top 200 if I’m not wrong.
We played in the Central Plain, and the game lasted 57 minutes. During the whole game, I had serious economics problems ,i lack a lot of villagers production (in fact, the macro cost me a lot), I always lacked resources to be able to follow the Swede, I had to raide him too much and keep him under pressure at all times. At one point, the inevitable happened and I just outpaced myself in eco and it was gg.

Even so, the game was very exciting, on our Discord while we played everyone was very expectant, I recommend it.