Fixing Delhi

Yeah, my only issue with fixes like this is that it becomes a benefit to all civs. Elephants can be good when backed with scholars but TC targeting would throw that option out the window too lol. If Delhi and China are supposed to be Age 3+ civs then maybe a buff to outposts (increased pop space or reduced cost?).

Outposts are kind of bad for Delhi rn with the reduced Sanctity up time (since now you need villagers on gold) which translates to requiring multiple TCs/Castles which translates to getting to stone later.

1 Like

Actually it’s the opposite. The Scholer effect was nerfed. Previously 9 Scholars reduced the research time by 80%, but for now you need 15. Along with many wrong values for technologies (such as Hardened Spearman taking 60sec more), Delhi does not have any early-stage advantage relative to the one in the previous version.

“Wifi” does not affect anything. It’s only about if researching building is within ANY Mosque effect or not.

4 Likes

Not going to mince words here. I’m pretty salty about all of this.

Not necessarily about the changes to Delhi (I could change how I play the civ), but mostly because they completely broke it.

The tech research times are all incorrect for their age and the castle techs take longer based on the number of garrisoned scholars.

There is also no mention of Delhi fixes in next week’s patch.

1 Like

I played with Delhi yestarday and I saw that Delhi ■■■■■■ up. :rofl:

1 Like

Its perhaps a bit rail-roaded, but I feel there needs to be a clearer guide on how many scholars Delhi are expected to make. I can sort of see the argument before that having 9 unlocking all imperial techs in a minute was too strong (although this can be argued against - and the trade off is a lack of late imp power other civs get).
But it seems silly that you now need zillions of scholars to approach even a half sensible time. Clearly stacking 20-30 scholars isn’t the intended way to play. So what is? Are you meant to still only have 9, but techs take 6 minutes? That doesn’t feel right either.

I’d prefer some sort of system where you are say expected to get a certain number of scholars - and the bonus is capped to a balanced level. So say in imperial the cap is 9 scholars - but that means all techs are completed for free in 2.5~ minutes if 1 minute was seen as too strong. Maybe in Castle the cap would be 6 scholars, if you have that they will complete all techs in 90 seconds or so etc.

1 Like

The Madrassa can garrison 20 scholars. I’m assuming that when you reach imperial, you should have more than 20.

With the Dome of the faith you can train a scholar every 45s for 75g.
So you should have trained 20 in 15 minutes for 1500g. So around 20 minutes in-game.
With 20 scholars, the imperial techs take 3m 3s to research, so the expected number should be more than 25. 25 is 2m 18s.

It’s obvious that the 15x change is intended to force players to produce scholars from monasteries as well the Dome.

This means that the Delhi player is expected to invest more resources into their tech.

In castle age, with 9 scholars, you should be able to research your techs around 2m, but some of the techs have imperial research multipliers, meaning that you need to have more than 25 scholars in the castle age.

So instead of your tech infrastructure costing 450wood + 1350gold (Half for Dome) and then in Imperial costing an additional 450wood and 3000gold (Without Dome), it will cost 1500wood and 4350gold in castle age for you to be able to compete.

And this excludes the population cost.

2 Likes

Why not? As long as the double gold income (Delhi’s lifeline) is still present.

Even if they remove the 127 Delhi bugs, Delhi is still utterly unplayable after the ‘phenomenal’ winter update. And the civ’s charm and personality (the early dynamics for SSs) is gone.

They changed early Sanctity by saying it “forces” other players to contest a mere 3 SSs early on… but it’s totally ok we’re forced to contest 50 deer and 10 wolves when playing against ‘was-already-OP’ Rus.

1 Like

When Delhi players open water they usually don’t make a mosque at all. They didn’t want Delhi to be a one trick pony, so now Delhi has no tricks at all.

2 Likes

No it was the same. Any building in the network of any mosque had a research time reduction based on the number of scholars in all your mosques. The “wifi” is referencing the fact that you don’t need all mosques in the same connected network.

2 Likes

You can still do sanctity it’s just no longer a dark age strat is all.

1 Like

The problem is it likely comes too late in feudal now to be any better than civs just taking them in castle. Not going to jump to conclusions yet, but I am skeptical.

1 Like

It’s a 4min tec which puts it in the ballpark of getting a blacksmith upgrade immediately after aging. Also before(although extremely rare) some ppl would que the efficiency tech first to deal with pressure THEN go sanctity which behaved exactly like the current patch.

So try to age up to put some raid pressure meanwhile teching sanctity in the background. Hopefully by the time it’s done you’ll have 3 scholars to send simultaneously. If you can hold the sites for even 1min you’re more than pay for the prices of a 150g scholar.

Also other civs typically don’t go for sites unless they’re after a win condition or just happen to have their own scholars qued bc they only get 100 gold per min and scholars cost 150g for everyone. So you’re not gonna make a scholar just to take a site as a non-delhi unless you can hold it.

1 Like

By the time you have sanctity researched everybody is in Castle age and they can simply send their monks without any research. So now delhi is disadvantaged from capturing sacred sites compared to other civs because they don’t need to do any research in Castle age and can capture sacred sites faster. Also if delhi is sending their scholars that means they are not sitting in mosques or in military production buildings, so delhi is even doubly disadvantaged because they have to send them out to capture sites when they are needed the most in Castle age because everyone else is massing up armies and doing their researches.

I don’t think they’re disadvantaged - I think Delhi can get them in Castle without researching and without getting double gold as well. It’s not like the research costs anything. I suppose you’re right there is a slight disadvantage in having scholars on the field at that time instead of buffing research/production. But it’s not a big one.

The big issue is the delay in realizing the gold income from the sacred sites. Maybe it was too strong to have in Dark Age, but Delhi don’t have the eco/military bonuses other civs have (Oovoo, defensive landmark, early gold units, etc.) in Feudal age to keep up. Their fundamental design wants to go fast castle (no early gold units for Feudal attacks and rams come later than other civs), but they don’t have a major eco advantage to facilitate that.

The sacred site rushing was something Delhi could do uniquely. There’s nothing else Delhi can do in Feudal that isn’t done better by some other civ at this point.

Delhi can get them in Castle age without researching it? What are you even talking about. If a delhi player starts researching sanctity in feudal age it takes atleast 8 minutes to complete even with scholars in mosque. And any noob player would easily be in Castle before that. And they can simply send their monks to capture sacred sites while delhi is still waiting for sanctity to be researched.

Can’t Delhi just straight-up capture sacred sites in Castle like everybody else? I believe sanctity just enables capturing sacred sites before Castle and doubles the gold income. It’s not required for Delhi to capture sacred sites at all.

I haven’t actually tested that (I don’t recall ever reaching Castle and trying to cap a sacred site without having sanctity researched anyway), but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works. I don’t think the issue is if you can’t early cap you’re at some sort of disadvantage in a scholar race. It’s just that without the early gold income Delhi’s remaining bonuses don’t stack up against other civs’ bonuses overall in that phase of the game.

1 Like

You are correct. They can in castle without the tech.

sure they can capture sites without the research like everyone else, but delhi player wasted scholars, mosque space, gold, age2 landmark, and mosque was blocked because guess what sanctity was being researched. all the while other civ players were massing up a huge army and having an eco to easily pay for their quick research.

and they reduced the early age research multiplier?! it does not research any faster and is even slower than before, do you know why? because the reduced how much impact a scholar has on research time reduction.

Ppl are in castle 9mins into the game?? If they’re going for a fast castle ram rush them by having seige tech as your first blacksmith tech then as you trade rams for vil you’ll by then have sanctity to follow them up to castle gg

Everyone can take a site in castle without a tech. But it’s only worth 100g/min and and monks cost 150g for everyone else. Sanctity makes site generates 200g/min