Fixing Delhi

About the x15 research time in Imperial. I think they are missing out an important issue, the benefit of each additional scholar is decrecient- doubling the number of scholars does not halve your research time. They should used a multiplier based on scholars - how many scholars do I need to get x1 research time so that the decrecent factor is accounted.

I still don’t get where you’re going with this. Delhi can at least get scholars for 75 g. The other civs pay 150 for their religious figure to take the sacred sites. Most Delhi players go Dome and make scholars there instead of mosques anyway, and have multiple mosques for spreading influence and garrisoning more scholars to get the free techs faster. So I don’t think there’s a ton of penalty for having the Mosque “blocked” while researching sanctity. What were you going to do, research some other Mosque tech instead that was going to win you the game? You still spend less on research making scholars and getting the techs for free than most other players do having to pay for their techs, so that’s not a disadvantage. The early age research time problems at the moment are bug related I believe, not design related.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m arguing for a Delhi buff. I started the thread for that. I just don’t think your particular concern (some kind of disadvantage vs other civs in researching sanctity for double gold or just straight capping sacred sites for regular gold without sanctity when you hit castle age) makes any sense. I think (as I stated at the top) you should be able to research Sanctity in dark age but you can’t cap til Feudal.

I don’t see how Delhi have a disadvantage getting sacred sites with Sanctity being a Feudal tech. They’re just lacking a compelling military/eco advantage in Feudal (especially early Feudal) to put them on even footing with the other civs. Basically anything Delhi can do in Feudal is done better by another civ at this point.

Sanctity change is overkill
Just give Delhi an ability to capture sacred sites in the feudal age without any tech and sanctity tech to give them double gold. That will be the most balanced nerf.

Cute big butter Elephants :elephant:
Right now, elephants can be countered by almost every unit in the game… spears with double damage against cavalry, horsemen with triple damage against ranged, springalds with 20+ damage against siege. Crossbows with bonus damage against heavy… They just melt like butter even in large numbers and even against average sized army of any composition.
Best Elephant change
Just make Elephants to be treated as siege class unit only. After all they are mostly good against buildings. That way they can easily be countered by springalds even when(hopefully) springalds get their deserved nerfs.

x15 research in imp is absurdly long.
Instead of x15 longer research time just make imperial age techs not free but half the cost of original techs and retain the 5x research time. That way queued techs meta can be countered.

I still think Delhi Sultanate can be a well balanced fun to play civ if developers put some thoughts to balance it instead of making hasty decisions. People want to play Delhi. Some of us were waiting for a buff actually but it got nerfed instead.

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The quicker upgrades boost buff they got is INSANE. Way better than 2 min earlier sacred

It is nice until you realize that half the techs in feudal/dark age are longer instead of quicker now due to bugs. For example hardened spearman, wheelbarrow, honed blades in castle, piety, sanctity.

There is no need for a “balanced nerf” because it was not OP. The counterplay was so easy. Just revert the changes.

Do elephants count as siege currently? If so I did not know that. I would rather they just count as cavalry, it makes more sense IMO. I think they were ok actually - having 1-2 in your army was a real menace, but massing them was easy enough to counter. I think that’s how it should be. I don’t want late-game Delhi to turn into mass elephants only. Also once springalds get balanced it will be a really big indirect buff to elephants.

Also, I don’t know why this isn’t brought up more, but the monk AI needs a serious fix so that attack moving with them in your army doesn’t send monks running forward. Fixing that would also be a big elephant buff.

I disagree - I think the progression they added is silly and would rather revert it altogether. But if they don’t it should just be a simple progression - 3x, 4x, 5x, 6x. Not this weird 3x, 3.5x, 5x, 15x. That makes no sense.

Yes absolutely

this is just not correct. As a delhi main I lost 3 mins of sacred site - 600g + map pressure + taking pressure off of my base + forcing a reaction from my opponent.

Instead I get… wheelbarrow 30 seconds earlier? Forestry earlier even though it sucks? Who cares! Me and the majority of Delhi mains will go looking for a new civ now, not trudge around in F tier losing every game.

1 Like

It’s not insane. It’s still delayed compared to all the other civs in feudal. It’s just not as ridiculously slow as it was before. Assuming they weren’t bugged, it cut the research time of feudal techs by 30% (3.5x delay instead of 5x delay). There’s nothing insane about that.

Elephants need some help (I think they should be cavalry and countered by spears - making them only countered by anti-siege units would be too strong) due to the xbow buff and the current state of springalds/bombards, and imperial research times need to get pulled back (x15 is stupid). IMO horsemen need to better counter mass siege, although a direct siege nerf would make the horsemen changes less impactful.

My idea was to make sanctity researchable in dark age but now allow capping until Feudal. I think the idea proposed here is equally valid. But the combination of changes leaves Delhi with basically no identity.

Some upgrades, and many of them are crucial, aren’t quicker.

https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/list-of-wrong-research-time-for-delhi-in-8394/186563/5

Dehli got shafted, 2 of thier landmarks dont even work properly, the tower landmark states it grants ABOUT 15% permenent atk speed, “ABOUT”, wtf does that mean Relic, please i would love to know what “ABOUT 15%” is, it doesn not garnt even near 15 as far as i know. and there last landmark that suppose to give food, does not work either. So will this game devloper do anything right? its starting to worry me now tbh, really love this game to… I really dont htink its that freaking hard to do your job correctly and im just so sick of lazy ■■■ developers

Every match I keep getting surprised by how many units dehli are able to produce. Was my eco bad? What on earth happened? Where did they come from? But looking at the graph, no we produced the same vils. We gathered the same ammount of resources. Maybe I even gathered a bit more. Where did his resources come from? From not having to upgrade a single thing. I’ve tried playing dehli to see if there’s something I dont get. But no, when I play dehli I too get too many units and simply win. I know some noobs complain about imperial techs… What? Why would the game get to imperial when you have such an advantage earlier?

Delhi is already delhi-ted after the winter update.

3 Likes

Delhi is so so bad since the update. Check the forums, almost everyone agrees that it was a random nerf that made them one of, if not the worst civ now.

Delhi’s resources come from not having to spend resources to research any tech.

But yeah, the patch…

“Everyone” have been agreeing on a lot of things. Like french being the strongest civ or dehli being super weak pre patch too. People say a lot of uninformed things. And then dehli come and beat french. I really don’t trust the common people’s balance judgement. But the ladder is suddenly full of dehli players and they seem hard to beat.

2 Likes

Give it a few days and there will probably be hardly any Delhi players.

I guess your post is sarcasm, but your sarcasm is too unobvious, so that it’s easy for people to read it literally? IDK, it’s hard to tell.

1 Like

I thought sarcasm until I saw the reply. Now I am unsure. I do think RashEquation is right in his reply that people were too quick to judge French OP. Their final 8 Genesis win rate was only 25%. People were just playing it too much like AoE2 and not taking advantage of spears and outposts well. Most glaring issue with French was the Hulk (which was a major, major issue).

1 Like

Almost everyone does not understand that they now have to approach this civ differently.
The devs want you to overcome enemies with sheer number advantage instead of relying on one trick pony sacred site strats :confused:
Let the meta evolve, we will see what needs to be tweaked until the spring update.
As for the crazy imp tech penalty, you will need to produce scholars just like villagers continously.

Delhi were still nerfed unnecessarily. I’m fine with requiring Feudal for capping sacred sites, but xbow buff dramatically weakens elephants (which already weren’t cost effective against anything but cavalry), which in combination with the absurdly long imp research times (x15 instead of x5 is a massive nerf in macro and resource cost to produce and garrison enough scholars to get back to anything resembling an acceptable research time) puts them in a bad spot. The only major thing you can say about Delhi right now is you can produce a few more vanilla units in each age. They’re weaker than the other civs in almost every other respect.

And more importantly, it’s not like Delhi is the only civ with bonuses. The other civs have eco and military bonuses of their own. Almost all of them have higher quality military units (other than cavalry vs elephants, and Delhi getting +3 attack to MAA and Lancers in late castle and imp compared to the civs without major bonuses to those units) that are available earlier. Or have equally powerful eco bonuses. The nerf was unnecessary. The Delhi win rate in the final 8 of Genesis was 40%. Their meta still had room for improvement, but that’s nowhere near deserving nerfs (other than maybe stopping the dark age all-in sacred site thing).