Foot archers - increase frame delay. Hear me out

[TougherTrack508]

first the major point:

@MatCauthon3

@TougherTrack508

(see eg your stance that it’s fine for 2 civs to dominate the water meta

except you’re wrong here. i’ve actually proposed buffs to other water civs in the past to bring them up to the vikings and italians level, so once again you are spreading false information

You seem quite upset based on this post Cavalry, camelry and elephant changes - #15 by MatCauthon3
So appearently I’m wrong, but I’ll try to illustrate how I came to this conclusion:

@MatCauthon3

and? aggressive civs dominate open maps.
Italians and VIkings dominate water.
Japanese are great on hybrid maps.
so what if some civs have advantages on BF and Michi?

@MatCauthon3

@TougherTrack508

Italians and Vikings are a problem on water maps.

doesn’t mean they have to be nerfed. water civs doing well on water maps. just because you don’t like the design of it doesn’t make it a problem.

@MatCauthon3

you mean like Mayans and Aztecs are auto picks in tournaments too? or Italians and Vikings on water maps? or Huns in death matches/

some civs are just going to be better in certain situations.

I think I remember some other statements too, but I couldn’t find them by searching for the keyword ‘italians’ in your activity history, and you have a lot of posts, too many to dig through.

I hope you can at least see where I’m coming from.

WRT vikings vs eagles, I was mistaken. It seems my memory was playing tricks on me. A couple of the things I remembered were actually Vietnamese or other civs.
Impressive job finding all those videos

I don’t quite agree with your analysis of a number of them - Knights were made before any longswords/berserks showed up in a number of the matches (probably with good reason I think - I’d guess the pros are better than us, even if we have hindsight) and in some of the matches which you label as ‘berserk’ I’d label the UU creation either as a desperation move or as a coup de grâce.

In the game labeled as “viper vs yo game 3 nac3, militia line vs meso” viper wins the game with archers & skirms, and uses champions as a coup de grâce. (Remember my complaint was specifically that longswords get overshadowed by knights.) To label this as “militia line vs mese” seems insincere, but I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. You might just have made a mistake whilst scanning through all those games. There’s a lot of them.

Quite regardless, it does seem vikings’ longwords are good enough against eagles.

Now onto the pettier stuff…

@MatCauthon3

@TougherTrack508

How specific do I have to be? I’m sure you’re able to figure out that’s not what I meant. Less then 50% of games against less than 10% of civs

they still see use as one of the most common openers, as a counter to meso civs, and in the late game against trash. we see them far more then most people project that we see them.

My complaint was specifically about the balance of longswords. Not militia, not M@A, not Champions, longswords. And yet here you are ‘refuting’ me by telling me militia, M@A, and Champions are good at their niche. Yes I know. I’ve even got a higher opinion of Champs than you do if I recall correctly.

@MatCauthon3

@TougherTrack508

you’re 100% wrong. Vikings go knights more often than LSM-skirm, and Viking knights have only 100 hp.

that’s because most games aren’t played against meso civs. the Militia line has its niches and is very good at those niches, just because you don’t like that has no bearing.

so my point stands?

@MatCauthon3

@TougherTrack508

After the proposed changes Franks knights would still have >100 hp.

actually thanks for bringing this up - after the proposed nerf, Frank knights would become some of the worst knights in the game, with the exception of civs that lack bloodlines.

Yes Frank knights would get really unpopular if they had even 1 hp less than generic FU knights. It’d be hilarious (because 1 or 2 hp is pretty irrelevant), and it’s something some players would really like. (Remember that topic about someone wanting to make Franks less popular?)
It’s also completely irrelevant. If the devs can implement and buff a Korean wood discount without effecting the price of war wagons, and they can increase the portuguese gold discount without effecting the price of caravels, what makes you think they couldn’t nerf knight hp without giving franks inferior knights?
please…
It’s almost as if you keep thinking until you’ve found a ‘problem’ you can use to ‘win’ an argument and then immediately shut your brain down to prevent yourself from figuring out what the solution to the ‘problem’ is.