Fortified Palisade Wall Upgrade

What would you think of a Fortified Palisade Wall upgrade? To make it less broken for Anti Wallers, research time is 5 minutes. Gives you plenty of time to do your rush. In order for them get it quickly, they will need a second blacksmith, making it even more costly. Cost 100 food and 100 wood. Most civilisations do not have it.

Already exists in some way in the game. Gates however, may need a HP bonus after the upgrade.

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I think make it directly available in Feudal for a few civs should be fine.

On the top of my head here be some civs I think should have it. Teutons, Koreans, Byzantines, Bohemians, Chinese, Japanese, Burmese, and Slavs. The rest don’t have it.

Where are Portuguese and Spanish on that list?
Those slow, no-eco civs need walls the most, Sicilians as well probably.
Byzantines, Japanese, Teutons and Koreans don’t need it imho, they have wood discount of some sort, Byzantines even food discount for counter units. Chinese? Why? Their eco is so powerful they don’t need more turtling options.


Yeah. They may need them. Now that I think about it. At least, by this thread’s logic.

Italians might need them as well, another no eco civ.
Every civ that struggles to get to castle age on not pre-walled maps should get more defensive bonuses in my opinion.


Cumans and goths badly needed


I don’t think this is a good Idea. There is a ood tradeoff between the early available, cheap palisades and the later available expensive stone walls.
Imo we should probably buff the stone walls a bit to make them more “viable” instead of an upgrade that makes palisades little stonies.


No matter how you buff stone wall, they still cost stone. Stone wall cant be mass substitute of palisade wall. Besides, some players do use stone wall to block knight. Stone wall is viable imo.

The “funny” thing about palissades is that villagers repair them so fast that as long as they are not being attacked by Japanese m@a you could let them drop at 1 HP and you would still be fine as long as the villager reaches them in time. I kinda suspect that’s why you don’t see people being happy about the Cuman/Byz bonus since they are pretty much redundant.

In the aftermath in terms of vill time investment stone walls are only about 75-80% more expensive than palisades, but provide much more protection.
One of the main reasons why they are not that viable is the timing. By the time you can stonewall the opponent can already scrush or flush. So in order to stonewall yourself you need to be palisade walled already. From the sheer cost efficiency stone walls are already way stronger than palisades.
IMO Stone walls could be made acessable when clicked up to Feudal, cost more stone but build at basically the same speed as palisades. Then it would be a real decision to make if you prefer the cheaper, expendable palisades or the more expensive, yet durable stone walls and sacrifice a lot of stone for it.

It’s not about the stonewall itself. I think this issue also applies to towers. It is the simple fact that it costs stone. Stone, as a finite resource, with an ever increasing market cost is probably the rarest of the four resouce types. You start with enough stone for exactly two extra town centers. Plain and simple. Most people don’t want to stone wall if it means giving up the eco advantages of 3TCs, forces them to mine stone when they don’t want to, or replace a few tiles of wall by spending gold. People value TCs and castles too much for pretty much anything else that costs stone to be viable. After all, why would you typically want to stonewall if you can just build palisades, and then place a TC to both defend the area, and create vils? Why would you want to waste at least 175 stone on towers when you can just age up and build a castle? TCs and Castles are simply too usefull for most other stone things to be used. Big reason I feel like outposts aren’t really used. Sure, walls, gates, towers and outposts do get used in some games, but for most players the appeal of town centers and castles is simply too high to consider anything else that costs stone. That is a big part of the reason I think stone defences are underutilized.

Well we can figure that out. I predict if Stone walls cost 6-7 stone, 7 seconds to build but were available once clicked up to feudal, they would be much more viable. (ofc then the mayan bonus would need to be adressed)
This stone investment would allow for much more feudal “all ins”. Or so to say, meaning you could justify to sacrifice a lot of stone to wall up (as you also don’t need it at this stage) as you get some protection even if the opponent goes for a faster castle strat. Ofc you will have to deal with forward siege, but that’s also a serious investment with lower eco behind.
I hope you understand why I see this stone cost as a good tradeoff here. Cause in Feudal you don’t really need it and therefore stone walling would naturally lead to more strategic variety. It would be a decision to take, setting up for a longer feudal play as alternative to the race for the castle age powerspike.

Upgrade tech can be placed behind the loom and can be researched since feudal age.
This might be a good transition from feudal to castle. Stone wall will be more defensive anyway.

When you do a no loom FC with a heap of walls, but can’t get the tech that helps palisades truly keep enemies out. :joy:

So why do not research Loom first?
Loom is the one cheaper and most helpful to defense the economy actually.

Loom and Fortified palisade wall are both defensive techs, so it’s suitable to put them together.
You can put the defense aside to boost the economy, and there is still normal palisade wall whatever.
While the enemy comes, Loom should always be the first.

It don’t need be behind of loom, that doesn’t fit in air 2 style, there are more free spaces on the TC where you could put that tech, putting it into the blacksmith is also a way.
Anyway, they will not including it into the game.

fortified palisade would be an awesome upgrade tbh. enough to make a goth player sweat in pleasure