Foundation scouting should not be a thing

Also, sorry to resurrect a thread, but at 1:24 in this video, Viper’s use of this meshes well with sharp planning and perfect execution.

Without the foundation scouting, the skills needed to trap and quickwall wouldn’t have shone… :slight_smile:

Also, in the second game of this series (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAEKfZ-0Twk) you can see that Viper uses foundation scouting because he knows there are more towers coming but his sneak archery range isn’t found out because Yo was super focused elsewhere and wasn’t expecting a counter attack this way so he likely didn’t foundation scout well enough, or maybe not even at all. To me it’s a good example that it’s no as easy as some might think and not a death sentence to sneak strats.

I still think though that it isn’t a natural way of getting pieces of information. Especially, like I mentioned before, an issue related to that got fixed in Age of Mythology in one of the latest patches.

I personally would prefer if it wouldn’t be part of the game, though I can see partially the arguments against.

That might confuse also caster, why a certain player knows about a forward even though he/she shouldn’t.

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The difference is that in AoM, settlements are super easy to find and remain visible through the fog of war, so foundation scouting them to see if anyone is building a TC was super easy. Same for AoE3 trading posts which are also buildable on set locations only. In AoE2 there is no such thing and thus there is no “no brainer” spot to foundation scout.

At the end of the day, it’s the devs and partially the pros which decide what should be part of the game and what is considered an exploit.

I’d honestly prefer if it wouldn’t be part of the game, but I can live with it while watching pro games. It’s just looks really dumb in my opinion but everybody might have a different opinion on this regard.

Some more communication outside of the occasional events would be great from the parts of the devs.

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OK, even I will agree that this is a bit ridiculous at 12:00!

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This is just stupid.

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These two things please.

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its literally a bug that these people stuck in the past believe is a mechanic… every other RTS would have had it removed after a month or two in a bug fixing patch. the only reason people want to keep it is “because its always been like that”

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This is the most ridiculous things I’ve ever read. You can not place buildings on top of units. Full stop.

This is wrong. It should not tell you if a building is there when hovering and then only reject a building when you “click” to build. Yes you can still scout but only by repeatedly placing and deleting buildings over and over again, making it impractical.

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I agree, that would be a good compromise for me. Repeatedly building and deleting buildings would probably be too impractical for people to do it.

I don’t think it’s good for the game, but I like being able to see where buildings can be placed and like, having a real indicator when you know it can’t be.

If it would be possible, disable the red flash when it’s hovering over a unit or building you can’t see. If the terrain is unbuildable, clicking will give you the same CLACK sound the game normally makes to tell you “No, you can’t do that” as if it was already red, without providing the instant information with a simple sweep of the mouse with Palisade or House selected. That way, scouting specific areas, like stone piles you’ve scouted to check if your opponent wants to trush, or hills you fear may become house to an enemy castle is doable with some small amount of micro, but it’ll make scouting the entire back woodline or the entire front hill with a sweep of the mouse impossible.

Unless you want to lay - and delete - tens of palisades to try to find voids where the tower foundation is hiding.

EDIT: It looks like someone’s made this exact suggestion from context clues from the latter posts. This is the problem with 50+ post threads. Ain’t nobody got time for dat.

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Hmm, maybe keep foundation flashing in yellow over currently out of sight terrain in order to indicate, that maybe can build there. If terrain is in sight, then foundation will be either in normal color or flashing in red.

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Guess what; that’s how it already works in most Age games (AoM/AoE3/AoEO).

Really sad to see this egregious exploit still being a thing on AoE2DE, even more sad that some people in this thread are defending its abuse. Every time I see it on some stream, I just can’t believe my eyes that such a thing wasn’t fixed at worst a couple weeks within release. It’s totally game-breaking and just ridiculous to see in action.

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It is sad.
I was watching a game a week or so ago. Hera vs x(cant recall). Hera is probably my favourite pro player these days with his streaming and fun personality. But I cant help but feel SO GUTTED when he foundation scouts an area right outside his own base, forming critical game decisions based on that. it’s like watching your favorite sports team playing a game and then seeing them all quickly inject performance enhancers and then win a game they most likely would have won without cheating anyway.
it’s so stupid that this game ruining exploit still exists.

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The animal moving or being killed should not be looked in the fog too.

The player can notice there are units passing by since the deer are running in the fog.
Especially in the nomad, the player can notice the oppose TC since there are corpses in the fog.
If the player’s villager is killed by the boar, it can also be noticed.

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I like Zetnus’ idea above… But if not, can we at least have this as a checkbox option in the game lobby? It would be awesome to have one global “hidden mode” that disables all these free info tricks-

Foundation Scouting
Score
Opponent age up notifications
Civ reveal (i.e. if opponent picks Random civ)
Cut trees visible
Animal movement through fog
etc…

This will increase the strategic depth of the game and buff scouting/riskier strategies. Plus it’d be awesome for viewers (builds more suspense) of tournaments, etc.

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personally I think it would make more sense if as soon as you get LOS/reveal building blocking it; you get that ‘CHHK’ sound effect, a notification: ‘cannot place building here’ (or whatever it is) and the villager goes idle or moves to next queued waypoint. it’s up to the player to select the foundation and delete it to get refunded.
there’re a few ways to go about it and finding out which is best probably won’t happen until they are tried - or at least get some feedback from the tournament players who are oddly quiet here.
the important thing is to just do something already, and not leave it any longer. tournaments are getting more frequent and with higher prize pools. it’s stupid to leave this in the game.
and those other things you mention too. but i think this bug is the worst and outright embarrassing.

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Wouldn’t say its odd… They love keeping things as they are since it means less to relearn or adapt to. They are by far some of the biggest supporters of keeping things exactly as they have been for 20yrs.

On top of the issue a lot of them think this forum is a joke.

Think this is a great idea.

ROFL someone actually flagged this for SPAM :joy::joy:

And then they flagged the RoninNZ 's post below me. Clearly someone is just targeting us…

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