Foundation scouting should not be a thing

That really doesn’t sound right. Make outposts, create units to scout, actually do something instead of playing passively, e.g. finding a sneak by scanning the fog of war.

It’s really not that hard to adjust. The whole concept is just completely wrong. We’re talking about a strategy game.
The argument “the bug has been through decades, why changing it now” shows how regressive mindset you have.

Your attitude shows an obvious bias of people (usually close to the pro scene) who have been abusing the exploit through years and now - seeing that people find it as not intended and harmful to the game - they are scared of losing the advantage that they gained by learning when and how to abuse the bug.

Pros negating changes that make sense for a development of a game, provide less passive - more differential and exciting gameplay is actually a common thing across all games with a pro scene - changes that nerf things that pros have learned by heart are met with an instant indignation.

All because they are not interested in making the game better but keeping the advantage they have.
Just like you are.

It’s really disappointing to see such attitude from Viper or you.


I think I heard TheViper say in one stream “I really wish the game didn’t let you do this” as he did it, so I don’t think he’d have any objections to it being fixed.


That’s great to hear!
My respect and admiration towards Viper is preserved.

In 1v1 I’m 1634 so definitely not where you are but I do exploit the bug myself. Yet I have nothing against having it fixed. I even promote it! It’s better for the game.


A lot of us enjoy watching pros play. For me it’s the reason I bought the game in the first place.

So what’s your opinion? Would you like or hate it if it got fixed?

then if the pro has an issue with that aspect, they have a more effective way to convey the devs than us on this forum

Somewhat agreed with this. The more I play the more I realize the most important resource in AoE2 isn’t gold… or stone… or population space. It’s attention. You can only be looking so many places at once. That’s why hotkeys have improved my game so much. And playing until things become automatic.


but its not skill based, yes if you have more skill you can use the BUG even more, but even if you have zero skill it still has its uses… it only comes down to “who knows about it” unlike laming which requires some skill, this doesnt, and yes maybe we hardly ever use it, but some of us can still use it as soon as we know about it…


I mean how often does it come to mind “oh no, he might be forwarding me”. Besides you still have to scout the areas before this trick

prerequisites does not a skill make…

its a game exploit that has an impact, regardless of how much of an impact it has, it still gives someone an irrational edge/mechanic, people are trying to explain it away, but if it never existed and suddenly it was implemented it wouldve been hard opposed by vets nevermind everyone else

and on top of that WHEN THE MOTHER EFFING EFF are these guys like TT gonna realise the game isnt designed purely around their needs? they can keep crying and thinking the game belongs only to them, and we’ll still get things like auto scout, auto seed, map pool changes, and all the changes that also appeal to the masses instead of this self hyped 1% garbage. i cant believe how arrogant it makes these guys


Incidentally, here’s Viper using it (unavoidably) at 16:35. (He also does it more intentionally fairly often to see if golds are taken)


And here’s Hera doing it at 10:04.

Now, arguably, they would still want it out and only use it because if they don’t, and the other player does, they’re at a disadvantage. But either way, it’s part of pro play as it stands.


I’ve seen a 900 ELO player doing it as well, it’s part of play at all levels as it stands. People do it because there is no enforcement against people who use this exploit, so yes, you will be at a disadvantage if you don’t do it. The decision to use it so as not to be at a disadvantage doesn’t imply that the person likes it being possible to do it, or that they would object to it being fixed.


Agreed. I had posted about this a few months back-

On top of an option to remove foundation scouting, we should have something to remove score/age-up notifications and enemy civ reveal when a player goes Random. Think of it as a harder mode for AoE2: DE. This “artificial” intelligence gained from foundation scouting, watching score drops, being informed when enemies age up reduced strategic viability.


at the very, least I would like to see tournaments include a simple rule: ‘no intentional foundation scouting’. It seems alot of top players agree that it shouldn’t be possible, so if they all simply agreed to follow a rule, we can finally watch games rid of this stupid exploit. might take a few players a bit of getting used to. it’s probably hard to stop cheating when you’ve been doing it so long and have come to rely on it. Obviously it can happen accidentally, but I think it’s pretty easy for an experienced game admin to see what a players intentions are in the instances where this could occur.

I want to see pro players experiment with more sneaky builds in tournaments. The way it is now; the gamble is just too weak to risk it. the spectator enjoyment factor goes through the roof when you watch a sneaky play unfold… wondering if the other guy will notice it.
When you do a sneaky build, assuming the other player doesn’t cheat, you have a good chance of seeing the other player scout you - even if its just that half second it appears on the mini map. Part of the fun is seeing if the sneaky moves get scouted and if the player will be ready to react to whatever is coming, and if the sneak player knows he’s been scouted. Does he commit? Or switch? And does the other guy know he knows? does he know that he knows he knows?! the mind games get real and it’s so fun to watch unfold at the pro level.
I think Hera and Viper in particular would come up with some sneaky stuff. and Daut. he seems cheeky. actually all of them would. They’d all come up with crazy stuff if this simple rule was implemented.

please abandon the use of this exploit in tournaments. Perhaps it will have a follow on effect and it’ll be fixed in the game.


On a similar note, they really need to get rid of the ability to see chopped trees and mined gold/stone through fog of war. You don’t even need to scout a neutral gold to know that someone is on it if you haven’t touched it and you look over but one of them end tiles has shrunk.


That would be far more annoying than foundation scouting. It is good the way it is now that terrain suffices to be explored and not necessarily in LOS to build on. A good balance would be that it would let you place the foundation (and also indicate you may despite enemy units being there) and then cancel foundation and refund res if it turns out the space is occupied when it comes into LOS.


Has been suggested up in the thread and I adhere to this solution too.


yeah definitely also an issue… but i dono if these things will change, the vets have been using/doing it for so long and they have the closest link to the devs, they might just stop the devs from changing it…

The trees aside, mined gold/stone (and to a lesser extent berries so I guess it matters on Land Madness or something) was only introduced in DE due to graphical updates that shrink them proportionally. I doubt the pros would give a ■■■■ because most of them have been playing with the need to scout neutral areas for years on years.

I am currently 18+ on the 1v1 ladder and only because this has been in the game forever and people are used to it, I still would welcome if it was not possible.
I dont think anyone can fault pro players for not “bringing it up” more, with the devs or in general. Its not their job to develop the game or anything. They just play it, same as we do. And most play it for such a long time, that they dont notice stuff like that really.

Some may be against the change, sure, but I am convinced most would not mind if this were to get changed.

The question is, if you really want to change such a significant mechanic of the game. It would also confuse A LOT of players, that only once a while play this, play it casually with friends etc…

Just wanted to add, that not every higher rated player behaves like tanks does.
Altough tbf, he has fought a lot of honest fights in this forum,. with people that dont understand this game, but are very convinced they do, and come around with ridiculous ideas. Cant fault him for getting frustrated/annoyed.