How about 20% will become 25% you will get nice 200HP Paladin.
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Franks cavalry is considered the best (at least one of the best) in the game. Their paladin can tank one more hit from halbs. Franks is also one of the few civs able to afford paladin upgrade without much difficulty in 1v1. Chivalry is a big boost to their cavalry in both 1v1 and TG. No need to buff HP bonus.
Besides, they have cheaper castle. Massing throwing axeman is not difficult. Halbs or even camels just die hard to throwing axeman. Throwing axeman just compliment cavalry so well.
Interesttingly with 216 HP Frank Palas would trade exactly the same against FU Halbs.
Against Camels it is more complicated as there are so many different camels out there.
Thatâs why IMO higher HP palas for Franks can be justified as the counters would still work to the same extend as atm. Until 208 even Halbs lacking Blast Furnace still would perform the same.
If franks deserve 212 (because thatâs what it would be) hp paladins, Lithuanians deserve blast furnace back
(Note: I donât think either is true).
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And yet still a more reasonable suggestion than what youâre proposing, since all of those units get completely shredded by crossbows.
Mainly this honestly, all things considered.
I think the devs and everyone here is trying to get AWAY from the Franks dominance in the TG meta.
Making Lith Palas weaker was a good change for 1v1 due to the Leitis and WH buffs, but honestly, in an ideal world, Huns, Lithuanians, Franks, Cumans, Persians and Teutons would have similar pick rates.
And buffing anything on Franks isnât going to lead to that.
Okay, and 30 of those get in your economy in imp in a 4v4. You have to chase them with Halbs which donât even kill them in the same amount of strikes. By the time Iâm done defending with a second wave of 40 halbs I might as well just resign because I have 20 villagers left.
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You are confusing me. Are you afraid of buffing or nerfing Franks? How much worse than slavs will they be exactly? Slav farmers need to spend 60wood a pop per farm for their 10% effect to set in. Franks need to spend 100wood on a mill for 5-6 vills to work 15% faster. Also they dont need to spend money on farm upgrades.
Now Iâm REALLY confused. Paladins are expensive, so exactly how are we supposed to exploit chivalry and sustain production from 10 stables lategame? Chivalry is mainly for mass producing subpar 72hp lightcavalry anyway, and even then, there are civs that do that way better. Even in TG arabia, you need a huge trade network setup in order to keep churning out paladins nonstop. This UT isnt all its hyped to be.
Ok now I know you are trolling me. >.> Franks are extremely strong early game in 1v1 and TGs alike. Fast berries, free 150g/100gold, free farms ensure frank players always amass ridiculous knight numbers early in castle.
That would be an overall Frank buff. No one here is advocating for overall buffs. If it got upped to 25% without forcing bloodlines, then castle age frank knights would still steamroll every civ.
So whats your compensatory nerf to keep franks not completely blatantly overpowered after giving them bloodlines+ 20% hp in imp
Maaaan. Just stop for a second and think about it. Right now, Franks effectively get free bloodlines for their castle age knights, which simultaneously aint that great with scouts since they get 9hp only compared to 20hp with normal bloodlines. ( 54hp frank scouts take 3 spearman hits, same as unupgraded scouts, bloodlines scouts take 4hits). STILL, free bloodlines for knights means franks can make more knights, vills or spend on blacksmith. I say this is too strong. The nerf is that they will have to pay for it now, but as a compensation, CIV cav hp bonus kicks in imp, so they dont get outclassed by other cavalry civs lategame. (the % value is still subject for debate).
Thats more buff then it is nerf. Itâs a minor nerf to the early game where their strong eco will already carry them + a late game buff.
And itâs absolutely an absurd team game buff. Franks need real nerfs.
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tl;dr - Wild man makes a wild suggestion, people disagree, wild man gets angry and goes âRaaargh donât you know who I am, Iâm 1550, who are you noobs GTFOâ at everyone who disagrees
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Also agree with that. With this approach we wonât make any progress cause every discussion becomes personal. And fear away everybody who has interest in a real discussion.
I also read sometimes better ideas for the game from low elo players than from pros. I donât even think elo is a good predictor of how good the proposed ideas are in the aftermath. Probably itâs just luck if an idea turns out to be good.
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How is that a minor nerf rofl? We dont see slav or mongol picks for their knights rushes even though they got insane early game food gathering.
20%+20 HP Paladin would have 212 HP not 216 because game calculate hp bonuses from base hps (from 160). Mongols Hussar would have 124 hp if it is calculated from 95 hp but it is calculated from 75 hp, therefore it is 22.5 bonus (118 hp) instead of 28.5 hp (124 hp). Geneirc Heayv Camel would kill 212 HP Paladin in 9 hits instead of normal 8 hits. It isnât huge difference comparing to current Franks Paladin and other generic Paladins.
As for topic, 20% hp only in Imperial Age is good idea. Without free bloodlines, Franks wouldnât be OP civ in Feudal and Castle Age. Also Chivalry tech must be removed. 40% faster stable isnât good except team games. I think Devs should refer Franks arbalesters in history. I would give a tech that Franks Crossbowman decrease enemy armor 0.66/ 0.33 similar to Obuch. It would be very entertaining to watch Franks Paladin and armor reducer Crossbowman.
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216 hp palas 11
Amazing stuff
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Of all the civs you choose to buff, you chose Franks? Honestly the eco bonuses are as much part of their identity as Paladins. They wouldnât play or feel like Franks without them
Its an early game nerf for a late game buff. How are people still not getting this?
Nerf them first and after 3 months of games you can ask for a buff
Well cause your Title is misleading and your writing style harsh. Maybe you are still quite young or donât have much experience in writing in such a forum.
And itâs an easy âcheap shotâ.
Nevertheless, I think the general approach can work, but I wouldnât go that far. Franks probably should be tweaked especially with look on the TG meta (if this isnât changed). But your proposal is just too much imo for one of the most classic civs in the game.
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