What my friends and myself, as just average players experience, is a lot of French Royal Knights. Like a lot a lot (a lot). For most factions we from time to time see a lot of mangudai. Or perhaps a lot of camels. Even mass MAA from HRE. But nothing is as predictable as French going knights. Nearly pure knights. Every. Single. Time.
It seems that it is not even remotely relevant (1) what game type such as 1on1, 4on4, FFA or anything in between and (2) the faction of the opponent nor (3) the map. In fact, even (4) from feudal to imperial the logic seems to just keep spamming knights. Strat of the enemy? (5) just overwhelm it with more knights. Spears? Circle them, cause a split and then engage. No other faction spams knights till beyond the horizon like the French do.
Of course the world is not that simple and Iām dumbing this down to the conceptual point Iām making; but for the love of god every time I see French on the loading screen, regardless if it is 2on2 on dry Arabia or a 4on4 on confluence, I know my screen will be swarmed with French royal knights. No exceptions. The reason I donāt mention 1on1 is because resources typically donāt allow āswarmsā so there we just see āhordesāā¦
Their auto heal, their speed (both in movement and the fact they can be produced early on) along with scaling upgrades over all agesā¦ man, this is dreading to play. Iām not offering a solution. Iām not sure about the balance (in high level competitive play). Iām just signalling it as a member of the large middle group of the bell curve. I know people will be like āmake wallsā, ājust go spearsā; but that is not the point Iām making. None of these effectively mitigate the versatility of the royal knight (which we know empirically due to the fact they are still spammed like popcorn in a microwave).
No other faction than French seems this unidimensional. Of course one faction will always be the most; but does it have to be with the landslide distance to the number two that it currently is? Wondering what others think on this.
In a team game, on a close map, knights are overpowered now special French knight, nothing can 2vs1 with knights even hand cannoneers. I think should change mounted units is 1.25 or 1.5 pop is fairer
[quote=āKiezelSteentjeh, post:1, topic:202703ā]
t seems that it is not even remotely relevant (1) what game type such as 1on1,
[/quote] If enemy build only knight in 1v1 itās free win. Especially if you have camels. BUild a few camels, then rest spears and crossbows. If you donāt have camels, just spears and crossbows.
[quote=āKiezelSteentjeh, post:1, topic:202703ā]
) just overwhelm it with more knights. Spears? Circle them, cause a split and then engage. No other faction spams knights till beyond the horizon like the French do.
[/quote] Sounds like they are just better than you. You can also micro. But with xbows this wont work for them as youāll be shooting while theyāre engaging back and forth. Only thing you need to is to wall up and attack
Donāt play team games. Except if you and your friends are drunk and bored . Its impossible to balance.
Honestly couldnāt agree more. Itās really quite laughableā¦ devs claim they want āunit diversityāā¦ lolā¦ uh huh. Since this game launched, every French player just spams knights. Itās a joke they havent fixed it.
Please devs to strengthen Horseman against ranged units to make him as effective as Spearman against cavalry, so that the triangle balance will be established and solve the problem of Crossbowman being too strong.
In the games I play, people normally use them with 10-20 bombard cannons. The bombard cannons walk through the base destroying every building, and the 60+ knights mainly serve to protect the bombard cannons.
French Knights are simply popular. If you force them to play other units using French, they will leave.
Same with Mangudai, most people see Mongols as cavalry archer civ and they would prefer as cavalry. If you force them to play infantry, they will leave. They are not there to compete, rank up and make money by streaming, etc. Most of them are there to enjoy. And that is what people enjoy. It is a subjective topic.
What. When I am frenc, my main part of the army will consist of arbalatreers. Ranged are simply way stronger. Then I will have some kind of meatshield. Maybe knights, maa or spears. Having a few knights is also good for map control, and I do this with every civ when they become available.
Iām not going to respond to your full post. The idea to just donāt play team games because of royal french knights shows how inconsiderate you are regarding the issue at hand. You dispose of a beloved game type for many players. You argue to not go to a forest to deal with ongoing forest fires.
I agree with you that ranged, mostly crossbows or its unique civ varation to it are very powerful. However I want to remain towards the topic at hand which are French knights; which show up well before anyone can make crossbows. Even in later stages, the sheer speed, autoheal and raid ability of French knights gives them a lot of options in dealing with crossbows.
As Iāve stated in the original message, Iāve oversimplified the case. Especially in 1on1 games they are often complimented with archers, but this serves only as a counter to their only counter: spearman. And even this is iffy. Knights often simply detour the spears just to raid. Or can more easily flank any ranged support as they are much quicker. In concept Iām not saying pure knights, Iām saying it consistently revolves around the knights to such a degree it becomes unidimensional and obnoxious. If you cannot see that then I assume you stuck in plastic league, no offense. Iām 1200 ELO 1on1 QM or 1400 ELO team games QM.
Just as firelancers were popular, before they got nerfed. Or mangonells before they got nerfed. Or demo ships before they got nerfed. I like you raise this point as it illustrates very well the issue: they are popular because of their ease. They can easily be spammed straight from feudal and they remain good up to and well into imperial age. With lot of HP, armor, auto heal and speed, of course this unit is popular. I have no issues to units using its civ unique varations; but no other faction has an unit that is this dominant. Longbows donāt raid this well, HRE MAA only kick in in later stages and are slow. The units should compliment the army, carry the army over the edge, not be its sole intent throughout every possible thinkable scenario.
No other factions spams one single unit so often as French. As you mention: we see some players spamming mangudai. Indeed. Some, sometimes. Not every single game in every single game type vs every single opponent on every single map. There is only one faction that does that, that is the French, with knights.
And the Royal Knight is barely impacted by a reasonable number of spears. You have to micro like Beasty to ever have a hope, and itās so early that a typical build order will barely be able to get spears out. By the time you do, the French player will have archers as well.
Itās impossible to rush the French, and itās barely possible to defend. If you can, youāre not making it to Castle. You have to rely on your opponent not knowing how to utilize them or not making many.
I canāt defeat even the Hard AI when theyāre French, but I can beat every other civ on Hardest. Double for multiplayer - I canāt micro well enough to beat the first rush and have enough for the second rush.
I was just playing Rus vs Hard French and I couldnāt keep up production of enough spears to keep up with its knights because it takes so many.
I donāt think that increasing pop usage is enough - they need age-appropriate vulnerability to spearmen.
Cool. Your experience seeing whining online doesnāt invalidate that the French Royal Knights are just terrible to counter in an age-inappropriate way. Cope harder for your favourite civ.
I donāt get a problem with the Royal Knight. Well placed palisades can limit their mobility. spears defending your resource collecting villagers can keep them from raiding. if you play Chinese like me than barbican and outposts with handcannon slits can stop their raiding. Against the AI itās much easier to deal with them. I am terrible at micro and iām not scared of facing the French.
The problem is not the french knight but the fact that french can only go that way to play and this is trash. Even aoe2 Frank civ is better designedā¦
Pretty sure thereās some spearman posts. At least any post that says horseman/knights are too weak are pretty much because spearman are ātoo strongā
Wait AOE2 French? Are there AOE2 players that donāt go knights as French? At least in AOE4 they have to mix in archers/arbeletrier. AOE2 is usually 1 unit comps (usually xbows, knights or UU)
