Discuss Fully Playable Revolutions
This is my new mod. It takes all the current revolts and remakes them into full civs. I tried to keep as much of their identity as they were intact, while making sure they felt like real civs.
I would appreciate any feedback if any adjustments should be made.
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Revolution decks tend to have cards to unlock their unique units, I would recommend adding these units directly to the civilization, both to lighten their decks and so you can use the revolution’s own units from the start.
Citizens also cost gold, so some revolutions are going to need some efficient way to produce it from the start.
These are the options I can think of.
Option 1: All civilizations start with a coal mine prospecting cart.
Option 2: From the city center, we can train a bank cart.
Option 3: Change the citizen cost to food.
Option 4: Increase the villager cards of these civilizations by +1.
Would it be helpful if I let you know if I find any errors?
Hey, thanks for the interest! I’ve thought a lot about what units and card effects should be inherent to a civ, or should remain as cards. Citizens was a universal one, but another example would be Chinacos for Revolutionary Mexicans. However, I’ve been reluctant on the whole to add too much to the civ at the start, because I wanted to keep the mod relatively close to how revolts feel to play. I also wanted to keep the mod as simple and non-intrusive as possible. For Instance, if I were making Argentines as a standalone civ, I would probably make the Mounted Granadaro a normal unit rather than an outlaw, but doing that in this mod I think would be too sweeping of a change. That said, I’m open to changing my mind if it’ll make the civ stand out better. I’ve already made concessions here and there in the spirit of making civs play “like a normal civ”
On the specific topic of Citizens, I actually think they’re fine as they are. Yes, having a coin cost is awkward to macro and taxing on mines, but it’s possible to adjust builds around this constraint. And being specifically priced at 70c, the villager seconds spent to gather enough resources are roughly equivalent to a 100f villager. Furthermore, most civs with Citizens can train Revolutionaries, which gives them a good food heavy unit to make with the food otherwise destined for villagers. They also tend to have strong coin options in the mid to late game to compensate for mines depleting faster.
But I think your suggestions are creative, and they’d be cool in a different mod.
If you spot any errors or glitches please let me know. And I am still open to balance suggestions
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I’m not a fan of being too harsh in my criticism of a modder, after all you’re doing this for free and on your own initiative, but given the circumstances I think the best thing I can do is be honest.
Revolutions require prior preparation and therefore have access to more cards than a normal civilization, not only to enhance the revolution but to survive until the industrial age.
If you are interested in them feeling the same, there is also the problem that depending on the base civilization, it has different upgrades and paths.
For example.
Italian Argentina has a better attack rate thanks to church upgrades, more damage thanks to cavalry upgrade cards, and papal units also increase their duration on the battlefield.
The Spanish version does the most damage, but is excessively dependent on Unction and its revolutionaries are the best, but also the slowest.
The Germans are faster, have decent damage, and are economically better thanks to the settler carts and their upgrades.
The current Argentina feels like a skin of Spain with some extra stuff or like playing with an inferior version of the normal Argentine revolution.
This is going to sound harsh, but as the mod stands I see no reason to use it, it would be better to just use the normal revolution with my favorite civilization, it will be more effective and honestly more fun.
I’m sorry if my criticism was too harsh, but this is my honest opinion on the mod, if you’re still interested in fixing bugs. I noticed that all the revolutionary cities have the semicircular flags of the United States of America.
I appreciate the criticism. I definitely imagined most of the revolution civs as based on a specific civ, usually the one most historically tied to it.
And from changing the context from a revolt to a normal civ, some of the benefits of the revolt will inherently change. Having more cards than normal might be lost but you gain more flexibility in deckbuilding.
But I’m not opposed to incorporating more units, cards, or mechanics from across the base civs a revolt has access to. It’s just something I’d need to take case-by-case, in making something coherent and interesting rather than throwing everything into a blender. Maybe that’s just my inclination as a modder, I like to take baby steps.
This is also the sort of thing that will become more clear though testing and playing, so it’ll probably take time.
On the subject of the home cities, the USA flags was something I’d noticed, but I don’t have experience modding homecity graphics so I wasn’t sure how to fix it
Could you explain the reasoning, what do you mean by more flexibility?
I am currently trying this mod. For balance and lore purpose, I am limiting to Industrial Age. I am surely weaker than most of the main factions in Hardest but your mod offers a nice challenge during skirmishes, and I really like the flavour of your factions.
I am only disappointed that it can not be selected by AI, but I can imagine the hard work it would need to make it work.
Keep up the good work!
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Glad you’re enjoying the mod so far!
I am interested in adding AI for each civ down the line, but that’s something I’ll have to learn from scratch and if I’m gonna do it I want to do it right. A large portion of my time went towards researching historically accurate names for heroes, ships, forts, and taverns for all the civs, because I didn’t want the names for those to feel generic.
There’s also other priorities I wanted to finish first. So I hope to add AI eventually, but no idea when.
Being able to make your own decks is a core part of the AoE3 experience, it enables you to prepare strategies for many game types and strategies. Translating a revolt into a full civ will naturally mean embracing this.
It’s true many revolts have an excess of powerful cards, often more than 10 we’d consider equivalent to age IV cards, and can access them from the start. But as you pointed out, the tradeoff is you need to reach age 4 and spend the revolt, and usually your full economy.
Starting the game in age 1 instead of post-industrial will change the feel just as much, and outside of changing the starting conditions in your lobby there isn’t much to be done about that.
Sorry about the archive/unarchive, the discussion checkmark was a bit misleading. Anyway, new update:
Hello! Just a small update here, mostly focused around bug fixes thought there are some balance adjustments too. Currently my plan is to have another minor update ready for around the start of March, probably more balance focused. After that something more substantial hopefully will follow, keeping in mind I also want to put time into my Campaign Civs v2 mod.
Thank you to those who brought these to my attention & made suggestions, and to all those who are enjoying the mod!
General:
- fixed voicelines for Falconets, Horse Artillery, Great Bombards, & Native Embassy Travois
Argentines:
- added TEAM Lombard (I) to home city
Baja Californians (Filibusters):
- fixed a bug which disabled Heavy Cannons spawning from factories
Barbary States:
- Corrected the name from “Barbary Pirates” to “Barbary States” as the former is the name from the Historical Battles
- Changed the Villager and artillery models to Ottoman variants
Brazil:
- Changed the Dragoon Industrial upgrade from Legion Dragoons to Honor Guard (850w 850c) which upgrades them to Independence Dragoons; Honor Guard (IV) is removed from the home city
- after researching Imperial Dragoons, they will be named “Imperial Independence Dragoons”
Central Americans:
- removed Independence Movements (I) from the home city
Canadians:
- 12 Metis (IV) now correctly sends Metis units
- after researching Imperial Redcoats and sending Fencibles, Musketeers will be named “Imperial Fencibles”
Egyptians:
- Changed the Citizen and artillery models to Ottoman variants
Finns:
- removed Frontier Defenses, Extensive Fortifications, & Armfelt’s Autonomy from the home city; Advanced Frontier Defenses moved to age IV
- Blockhouse build limit now starts at 7, gains +3 in age III, +5 in age IV, and +5 in age V
French Canadians:
- after researching Imperial Musketeers and sending Fencibles, Musketeers will be named “Imperial Fencibles”
Haitians:
- after researching Imperial Pikemen and sending Pickets, Pikemen will be named “Imperial Pickets”
Indonesians:
- Cetbang starting damage, range, and armor reduced. Damage and armor restored in age III, range improved in age III, IV, and by Heavy Cetbang upgrade
- Cetbang population increased to 3. Reduced by 1 with Imperial ############
- Java Spearmen enabled starting in age II with reduced stats, improving in III and IV
- Removed the Pikeman as a trainable unit
- Added voicelines for Cetbang and Java Spearmen
- After sending Sumatran Elephants, War Elephants set to 3 population (up from 2) and Bhakti upgrades moved from Native Embassy to Stable
- Belanda Hitam now works as intended
Mayans:
- Added Settler voicelines
- Kowoj Traditions moved from age II to I in the home city
Peruvians:
- the Explorer and Bolivar can now rebuild the Cathedral after Lima (II) is sent
- Added voicelines for Manco Inca
- Manco Inca may now construct Strongholds without needing to send Machu Picchu
Romanians:
- Added Landed Gentry (I), Sovnya (III), and Flight Archery (IV) to the home city
South Africans:
- Added Dutch East Indian Company (I) to home city
- the Tavern, Church, native Trading Post & Oldenburg trickles now affected by +10% gather bonus
Texians
- fixed a bug which disabled Heavy Cannons spawning from factories
- after researching Imperial Charros and sending Lancers of Texas, Chinacos named “Imperial Texian Lancers”
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Just another small update today, full details on the mod page
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Interesting, it seems you’re starting to combine and make unconventional changes.
Let me make some suggestions.
For Argentina:
- Undo the change to the Horse Grenadier, but make it only trainable in the Industrial Age.
- Change the Grenadier card to the Fortress Age and alter its effect to allow the Grenadier to be trained in that age. (Everything else remains unchanged.)
- Remove the 3-Gatling Gun card. (The Grenadier card will take over this function.)
- Move the Cattle Driver card to the First Age. (It’s too fundamental to the economy of this revolution to be used in any other age.)
- I would recommend merging Argentine Mortars and 3-Mortars (infinite). (With access to the Imperial Age, this card is pointless.)
- Replace Mills and Plantations with Haciendas. (I’ll leave it up to you whether they can produce soldiers or enable this unit in the barracks)
- Add the Advanced Lombards card.
- I recommend removing Ufizi and instead hiring Italian Elmetti. Now, enable Elmetti in Lombards and bars.
- I recommend adding the Hire Little Bombards card. Now, make it possible for factories to produce it instead of the Heavy Cannon.
- Make the Blandengues card shippable in the First Age.
- Make the Gaucho only trainable in the Fortress Age.
- Make Argentina have cows enabled from the start and remove the Ranching card. (Being a civilization, this card becomes redundant.)
- Remove the Pike cards and replace them with Musketeers, Revolutionaries, or Soldiers.
For all revolutions originating in Spain.
- Eliminate plantations and mills in favor of haciendas.
- Make the soldier a trainable and upgradeable unit from the barracks. (For Mexico, this unit improves automatically with age.)
- Revolutionaries should be trainable from the barracks and should be able to be sent from the metropolis. (Replacing the shipment of pikes.)
I hope you find these ideas enlightening. 