I think trash camels can be interesting.
If they have the last armor they can be quite good vs skirms and therefore pair well with arbs.
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Ok, technically donât, but bizantinesâ camels already are kind of a trash camelâŠ
I actually have more the impression of trash knights with poles tbhâŠ
Why donât make Imperial Skirmisher only unique to the Vietnamese (and potential Chams)?
I think the current 20-year-old default tech tree of no Imperial Skirmishers can be considered balanced. If most civilizations have it directly, I worry it is just an unnecessary buff.
Isnât the purpose of making the civilization weak against archers?
So making it only cost wood doesnât drastically affect the balance.
That means they would at least lose Siege Ram.
Trash Heavy Camel with last armor is OP. It is almost as good as Hussar against Arbalest, Hussar tanks 24 shots, Heavy Camel tanks 20 shots. It will be also better against every melee units Halberdier and other infantries. Hussar is significantly cheaper, yes, but Camel must be very weak against archers like Halberdier in exchange for +18 bonus attack against Cav. Trash Camel is Halberdier replacement, thus missing last armor upgrade comply with Halberdierâs taking +3 attack from archers.
I think this is good idea but 60f is too low. 90f (or 110f and 33% trample damage) would be balanced and will be good option for Poles.
It does make sense. Both other generic trash unit lines have 3 upgrade levels. Skirmishers could be the same.
Trash camels are easily within the realm of possibility. With no heavy upgrade, the last armor and attack missing and the trash tech as the imperial unique tech they may if anything be too weak.
It would still kind of suck for paladin and hussar civs probably, but not really any harder than halberdiers do.
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I htink trash knight is already here which is Magyar Huszar maybe?
Very different role, itâs definitely Szlachta knights, not Magyar Huszar thatâs the closest thing the game has to a trash knight. Magyar Huszar is much more of an anti siege unit, and far less of a melee generalist like a knight. Not saying they arenât decent in melee, just that they arenât the all purpose unit the knight can be.
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The main issue with MAgyar Huszar is that it needs castles to be produced.
Yes itâs technically a trash unit but practically itâs a different thing as you canât spam them like the other trash.
But the unit is very strong for a unit that doesnât cost gold.
############################################################################################################
<= link to âELITE MAGYAR HUSZAR | Best UNIQUE Counters | Tierlist | Age of Empires 2â
at youtube from agearena
As you see here it performs quite good against a lot of the gold UUs.
And the unit would probably completley OP if you could make it from stable.
Which makes an interesting question if we can possibly make trash UUs of similar fashion that are basically as strong as standard units (or even stronger) but hold back by the need for castle production.
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Infact having full BS upgrades would still be better than having Imperial skirmisher without full upgrades to be fair. Obviously i would be and upgrade that not every civs get. It would be treated as the hussar for example, so rare, and not fully upgrades most of the time
Also, a civ can still be weak against archers even with the Imperial skirms if it lacks any bonuses and upgrades. Imperial skirms from celts for example would still be bad, just less worse than now, while britons imperial skirms would never exist because that would be OP
In general, i think that every unit should have an Imperial age upgrade and skirms Is the only standard unit lacking that (cause monk is not really a regular military unit and it gets indirextly upgrade by its manu techs from monastery), and i think thatâs not quite right
@DodoNotDoDo, the forum censoring links and screenshots is a pretty big problem, can you have a look at it?
What about trash gunpower? I think Incan slinger had the potential to become a trash gunpowder.
If they made like a generic slinger or something with less damage (like 2-3) but cost no gold, I could see that being something that could round out army composition.
This could actually be a quite early game unit as well (with possible upgrades)
Slings were actually used well into the medieval period in Europe, as well as the staff sling.
Not going to happen with HC already a unit.
gunpowder already needs so few upgrades, itâs hard to see how it could be made trash and not be OP.
Handcannons for 95 food/wood without any archer armour upgrades, missing conscription, and not benefiting from heresy is the best you could do, and I think thatâd be convincingly stronger than all trash units currently in the game (including civ-specific trash units).
Besides that, gunpowder sounds expensive. Trash gunpowder would be weird flavour.
Iâm not opposed to seeing more sling units, but most proposals for new sling units are pretty bad. (And also, sling units donât use gunpowder, unless theyâre using a sling to launch grenades I guess)
Yeah, I think it should go to Somalis if theyâre ever added to the game.
By the way, aside from trash units, what about guard towers with part of their stone cost replaced with wood?
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Slings were actually used well into the medieval period in Europe, as well as the staff sling.
I have created a post where I suggested that a unit called the [Staff Slinger] could be added to the game. (The [Staff Slinger] a New Trainable Unit from the Siege Workshop)
From one of the responses that I got from my post, a user by the name of @PlumpDucklin suggested that the [Staff Slinger] unit could roughly cost: 50 Wood and 20 Stone, which would implement a special cost for this unit.
I am always open for feedback concerning this unit concept, so please share your thoughts about this unit idea in the post section that I have created.
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I think the staff sling placed in a siege workshop would be a little odd.(stone cost I think would make it interesting, but definitely not a trash unit anymore)
However if it was a cheap unit with bad accuracy low damage and low reload speed, i think it could be viable
For trash gunpowder I think I mean a trash unit with Armor piercing. Kind of like a skirmisher versus infantry.
HC are kind of hard to force into a trash state.
One other Idea, what if there was a unit that cost 20 food, but whose purpose was to garrison in castles and towers so that it added extra arrows?(call it a guardsman/watchman/lookout?)
I would say any civ which doesnât have good upgrades on that unit would be a good candidate for a trash unit. E.g. Civs with no Cavalier upgrade or civs with generic rams and no capped ram.
(stone cost I think would make it interesting, but definitely not a trash unit anymore)
I am aware that I went a little bit of off-topic considering that this post discussion is about adding new trash units to the game in the future. But since you mentioned the Staff Sling, I just had to bring up this unit idea suggestion that I posted earlier this year.
However if it was a cheap unit with bad accuracy low damage and low reload speed, i think it could be viable
Yeah, thatâs the idea that I had in mind for this unit. When it comes to the reason as for why the [Staff Slinger] unit will be trained from the [Siege Workshop], it is because according to the information that I have found about the Staff Sling, it was apparently used during sieges and ship-to-ship battles for throwing incendiaries.
I just thought that it could give the early game some extra spice by having a siege unit that can be trained during the [Feudal Age], and which would be more affordable than the [Onager] but whose siege capabilities will be heavily dependent on their numbers for quickly taking down structures.
For trash gunpowder I think I mean a trash unit with Armor piercing. Kind of like a skirmisher versus infantry. HC are kind of hard to force into a trash state.
As for a gunpowder trash unit maybe there could be a new gunpowder unit called the [Petronel Gunner] that can fulfill this role. They will be armed with a âPetronelâ which was a certain type of a firearm from the 16th and 17th century, however earlier versions of the Petronel did apparently appear at the end of the 14th century. The development of this firearm branched off into two different directions, where on one hand it became a Pistol while the other variant was a Carbine. This unit could have a shorter range than the [Hand Cannoneer] which can be similar to the [Skirmisher].
This image below could be used as a reference for the weapon that the [Petronel Gunner] unit will use.
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