Game prefrence: A Competitive OR Ensemble inspired RTS

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
41

@TheBritish said:
We need a Starcraft alike thing. We need a game where skill matters in the game.
We dont need a game where anyone with half a brain who is good at playing OP civs even tho he has no clue how to play the game can win Tourneys.
The mechanical skill to play the game should never be reachable by humans, so really good mechanical players can gain advantage over the slow ones. Its a strategy game, you’ll need to decide what you wanna do if you are bad/slow, and as you improve you can start doing more things at once.

What aspects of Starcraft you are thinking about. And why do you think they should complement age in any ways? Please elaborate.

42

I never said anything about age. I don’t think anything i said relates to age in any way.

43

Starcraft is based on APM where you need to train your reflexes and just copy other strats/moves exactly and try to apply them to perfection because the maps are always the same, with the exact same chokepoints each time, resulting in the same situations.

AOE2 is different than that, even though the random generated maps can make it a bit unfair sometimes, each game is different, you need to also be creative each time and adapt to the map layout, as opposed to just a mechanical play like in SC.

So skill really matters in AOE, it’s just different skills, it’s more like chess.

44

@IamDalv said:
Starcraft is based on APM where you need to train your reflexes and just copy other strats/moves exactly and try to apply them to perfection because the maps are always the same, with the exact same chokepoints each time, resulting in the same situations.

AOE2 is different than that, even though the random generated maps can make it a bit unfair sometimes, each game is different, you need to also be creative each time and adapt to the map layout, as opposed to just a mechanical play like in SC.

So skill really matters in AOE, it’s just different skills, it’s more like chess.

AoE2 has RNG features that means players have to be more creative and play more on the fly so to speak, but SC has 3 vastly different races with units that will regularly create different situations in the shape of dropships, air units and more cheese/early aggression options. Take SC, AoE2 and Sc2: I would honestly say the least mechanically demanding game out of those three is Sc2, and that is generally even deemed too mechanically demanding by the new gen of gamers…

Will be interesting to see where AoE4 goes. Will it be a game like AoE/AoE2 with heavy doses of macromanagement, or will it be more on the CoH & Wc3 end of RTS that is light on macro elements, or will it be somewhere in the middle, which would probably be something like AoE3 and Sc2. Personally I am down for anything, as long as it is enjoyable.

45

Without the blessings of original dev new game is pretty much nothing.

46

@UnboltedCord996 said:
Without the blessings of original dev new game is pretty much nothing.

Yep, that’s true.

47

I can’t vote: you are confusing Competitive with non competitive non trend \ fashion connected games.
You are confusing ESO type of game with quality content, game over game, character developed. Etc.

There is one AOE it’s I and II, AOE 3 decided to ruin with Expansion AKA DLC in 2006 policy and started the finance leadership pseudo gaming which today has become random loots discovery (which is practically CASINO gaming psychology for kids which is deeply illegal and immoral, dirty as ■■■■ and not fun).

The games appeal to the “desire” to earn, have, possess, look, share nothing, insult, hybris part of humans and not to the fun part of gaming. IT’s all comfortable, uniform, chinese, laughable, egocentric…

AOE III had definitely good things (graphics “was” too good but still loved (by me) RpgISH trend “innovation” due to desire to broaden profits by Microsoft (wondering why they said 5 months ago “We want a game like Zero Horizon Dawn” (which is crap that copied the witcher with environment that are cool to take pics of and that’s all…

They said that because they are all about money.

Let’s get to the point.

We want a competitive and deep game, it takes years to develop. You can’t be “Relic” or whoever and say "hey we are going to make AOE IV and people that have this so called “hype” and run buy or even preorder after 1 month they said that… not even it was a secret project for 10 years now and they got work sold by an other company…

IT’s impossible to make a nice RTS AOE espirited in 1 \ 2 years.
Put your heart to rest and your taste and experience meter to work because you have none…

Sorry no offense.

**Today players divide between DOTA “players” and “indie” psuedo games with Anime journey, or Walking simulator with no depth, without considering that none of them is a real videogame player or a strategy gamer.

Regarding AOE III it was about to be a good game, then they closed the project throwing two “expansion” viruses and closing the support. Disgusting.**

48

@“W Tomahawk W” said:
I can’t vote: you are confusing Competitive with non competitive non trend \ fashion connected games.
You are confusing ESO type of game with quality content, game over game, character developed. Etc.

There is one AOE it’s I and II, AOE 3 decided to ruin with Expansion AKA DLC in 2006 policy and started the finance leadership pseudo gaming which today has become random loots discovery (which is practically CASINO gaming psychology for kids which is deeply illegal and immoral, dirty as hell and not fun).

The games appeal to the “desire” to earn, have, possess, look, share nothing, insult, hybris part of humans and not to the fun part of gaming. IT’s all comfortable, uniform, chinese, laughable, egocentric…

AOE III had definitely good things (graphics “was” too good but still loved (by me) RpgISH trend “innovation” due to desire to broaden profits by Microsoft (wondering why they said 5 months ago “We want a game like Zero Horizon Dawn” (which is crap that copied the witcher with environment that are cool to take pics of and that’s all…

They said that because they are all about money.

Let’s get to the point.

We want a competitive and deep game, it takes years to develop. You can’t be “Relic” or whoever and say "hey we are going to make AOE IV and people that have this so called “hype” and run buy or even preorder after 1 month they said that… not even it was a secret project for 10 years now and they got work sold by an other company…

IT’s impossible to make a nice RTS AOE espirited in 1 \ 2 years.
Put your heart to rest and your taste and experience meter to work because you have none…

Sorry no offense.

??? No where in this thread the thread owner said it will take 1/2 year. He clearly said “or a RTS with “today’s” design philosophy i.e. moba type objectives, multiplayer-centric, competitive, shallow, fast paced, dlc and expansion riddled game?” And he is spot on with todays gaming standard. Isn’t it all boil down to with RTS games today…be competitive by copying LOL (a freaking MOBA game) and StarCraft (A rush, similar to pooping, RTS), because that’s where the money is.

49

I said that, notbody else said that.
but don’t worry let’s stay in topic… It’s not about money. Game creation is an art. AOE was this. People understood that tacitly, AOE III was that then after a few months (it was already a plan everything changed) it was spoiled.
We don’t need to buy bad games and then even spend for “expansions” …This is a criminal practice. I did play and spent thousands of hours on AOE 3 not just because i had a bad pc and it was the only game I loved and played, but because I HOPED the game would be better. The players base instead degraded everytime. I had even people disconnecting from team games just because they thought they were bad or becasue you were bad or because they had to go. U spend hours and people just move out from a competitive game…
This is just a lil issue.

We need people to grab what can be grabbed, designed balanced, removing what is not AOE, what is not a videogame and stick to the tradition innovating with new technology (of RTS maybe - I suggested switchable avatar and join game in live sesson for potentially extended never ending matches, innovation like random and rare natural catastrophes just in some matches, balanced game = maps and hitpoints\upgrades must be all working well as counter and logically inside a matrix (u can’t have a horse fully developed not anhilating a cannon), a few “Eras”, and all the cool details like regrowing resources mode on or off a good STARK game that CAN ONLY BE MADE BY PLAYERS FOR THE PLAYERS and by experienced AOE saga players\multiplayer interested in competition players, not from others.

Maybe they developed for years this game and the announcement was just last summer. I don’t know. Anyway
If you want a good AOE IV it will take at least until 2020 at least. Also seen the team they have (few people).

I wish they made players the team not just regarded them as the future players or listened to the microsoft contract they signed. We need a user prone game, there are good ideas in the forums and good opinions, many other have really scarce taste and do not consider the AOE spirit and competitive love, depth of Wololo tradition … this is much more unrespectful than me saying someone has no taste at all.

Aoe III was raped by the finance era that we live today not just in our cities and communties but also in culture (see videogaming industry - vertical integration, promotion main expenses, repository, format repetition and good buy creative content)…

§**I have to say that thinking and reflecting to many things I read; maybe the best and safest way to operate for RELIC is AOE IV to be the prehistoric and Bronze times until III bce until alexander (India and … what we know and now deleted and destroyed of the Aztecs).

They can then make expansion for those who are not happy and wanna play the same game but in medieval era.
This is what they will do. A game at episodes. One grabs that part of the game and plays it.**

50

@“W Tomahawk W” said:
I can’t vote: you are confusing Competitive with non competitive non trend \ fashion connected games.
You are confusing ESO type of game with quality content, game over game, character developed. Etc.

There is one AOE it’s I and II, AOE 3 decided to ruin with Expansion AKA DLC in 2006 policy and started the finance leadership pseudo gaming which today has become random loots discovery (which is practically CASINO gaming psychology for kids which is deeply illegal and immoral, dirty as hell and not fun).

The games appeal to the “desire” to earn, have, possess, look, share nothing, insult, hybris part of humans and not to the fun part of gaming. IT’s all comfortable, uniform, chinese, laughable, egocentric…

AOE III had definitely good things (graphics “was” too good but still loved (by me) RpgISH trend “innovation” due to desire to broaden profits by Microsoft (wondering why they said 5 months ago “We want a game like Zero Horizon Dawn” (which is crap that copied the witcher with environment that are cool to take pics of and that’s all…

They said that because they are all about money.

Let’s get to the point.

We want a competitive and deep game, it takes years to develop. You can’t be “Relic” or whoever and say "hey we are going to make AOE IV and people that have this so called “hype” and run buy or even preorder after 1 month they said that… not even it was a secret project for 10 years now and they got work sold by an other company…

IT’s impossible to make a nice RTS AOE espirited in 1 \ 2 years.
Put your heart to rest and your taste and experience meter to work because you have none…

Sorry no offense.

**Today players divide between DOTA “players” and “indie” psuedo games with Anime journey, or Walking simulator with no depth, without considering that none of them is a real videogame player or a strategy gamer.

Regarding AOE III it was about to be a good game, then they closed the project throwing two “expansion” viruses and closing the support. Disgusting.**

I cant believe you are actually trashtalking developers for releasing more content for the game. And its also false that it takes 10 years to develop a good game. 2-3 years is more than enough to get a Triple A masterpiece.
Relic has 20 years experience in creating games, its not an Indie company nor middle school kids making a game. You also need to cut all the trashtalking about games, developers and game design.That shit isnt welcomed here.

51

@WTomahawkW , care to elaborate? Your argument is everywhere, give me an argument that is straight to point. What are you trying to say? Sorry I am not native English speaker.

52

I think this game should have some type of esport scene and some competitiveness like StarCraft series. Like their ladder.

53

@UnboltedCord996 said:
I think this game should have some type of esport scene and some competitiveness like StarCraft series. Like their ladder.

Not quite. A game should never be build around competitiveness and multiplayer e-sport alone, ever. Otherwise it will be a disaster and we have had few recent RTS disasters which took this approach. Notably DOW III. It’s always up to the playerbase to decide if this game “A” will have e-sport scene. Anyways, I don’t think people who watch pew-pew lasers will have an interest watching a historical title.

54

New game must be an homage to ensemble guys and the guys over at the Robot games.

55

@CoolestGaia said:
New game must be an homage to ensemble guys and the guys over at the Robot games.

Amen!

56

I will be really upset if they decide to harp on AOE 4 “As an e-sport”. I am getting increasingly sick of how many titles are forgetting their themes and simple fun of playing the game in favor of being a tournament device. Counter Strike: Global Offensive is a glaring example, where the entire vibe of “Terrorists vs. Counter Terrorists” just got absolutely drowned in its e-sport style and stupid, out of place gun cosmetics.

I never played AOE as a competitive title. I always played it for the fun of running of my ancient world/ medieval/ Imperial nation and raging massive wars in those respective periods. This includes the multiplayer, which I generally played against friends to have a good time. I really do not want all of that sacrificed to make this “Viable for e-sports”.

(Incidentally, DOW 3 going in this direction is exactly why I stayed the ■■■■ away from it, and I hear no end of disappointed over the same issues from those that did give it a shot. I sincerely hope Relic got the hint…).

57

@Eininfar that’s exactly what I fear too. A game needs to be fun first. It’s up to players to develop an esport scene, not the developers.

58

An Age game needs to cater to both the casual comp-stompers and the high end PvPers. It needs to be fun to watch, too, of course.

59

ie. it needs to be similar to aoe 1-3.

60

There’s a lot of reductionism and misinformation going on in this thread. Competitiveness is not mutually exclusive with catering to casual players.