Gastraphetoros, Fire Archers and Burning Pitch

Age of Mythology: Retold Discussion
1

Gastraphetoros and to some extant Fire Archers are labled as archers that can deal good damage to buildings compared to other archers. But, with Burning Pitch this advantage over other archers is significantly reduced.

Just to have some perspective:

Fire Archer- 2.25 DPS/pop *3 = 7.75 DPS/pop. *6 =15.5 DPS/pop
Chu Ko Nu- 3.8 DPS/pop *4 = 15.2 DPS/pop
Gastraphetoros- 1.9 *11 =21 DPS/pop
Toxotes- 2.7 *4 = 10.9 DPS/pop

So Fire archers end up dealing almost the same damage as Chu Ko Nu!
While Gastraphetoros have unimpressive twice the dps of a Toxotes.

there are 2 possible solution IMO, both with their own downsides:

  1. make Burning Pitch bonus multiplying multiply the bonus as well instead of being addative, so Fire Archers will end up with *9 for instead.
    Downside- it’s not in line with how multipleyrs works together which is ususally addative.
  2. make them deal some crush damage instead of having a multiplyer. this way Burning Pitch will have the same effect for them as it have for the other archers.
    Downside- they will be better vs siege weapons and some myth units dou to the different damage type bypassing the pierce armor. (though it could be solved with a special ability like priests have).

What do you think? do these archers that are supposed to deal more damage to structures need some more help, or is it ok as it is?

2

I thinks it’s fairly ok as is.
While pop-wise Fire Archer isn’t much more impressive than Chu Ko Nu, they do have several other advantages.

  1. Cost per pop:
    Fire Archer. 40 res (22.5W/p 17.5G/p 4.5s/p)
    Chu Ko Nu. 48.33 res (30W/p 18.33G/p 5.33s/p)
  2. Range:
    Fire Archer. 17
    Chu Ko Nu. 14
  3. Speed:
    Fire Archer. 4,0
    Chu Ko Nu. 3,8

These are all stats helpful tools against buildings, the Fire Archer can fire earlier & from a safer position than the Chu Ko Nu while also being produced cheaper & faster than it as well.

Worth noting about the Gastraphetoros is that it can fire from beyond fortification range.

Your dps to pop ratio do make it sound a bit concerning, but taking all factors in consideration, I don’t think it’s as much of a problem.

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3

You are right to point that!

I forgot to mention the range, which is indeed crucial for Gastraphetoros in particular as they outrange the defenses.

Though I will admit there is another layer of “problem” with Gastraphetoros.
They do so little pierce damage, that the petrobolos is not that bad compared to them. A mixture of toxotes and petrobolos can out preform them… but I think that’s a talk for a different topic.

My point is more about the difference caused by Burning Pitch- Without Burning Pitch, Fire Archers are clearly the superior with double the damge. But with Burning Pitch that leverage over the Chu Ko Nu is gone.

So I will rephrase it as- Shouldn’t Burning Pitch “prioritize” archers who already classified as good vs buildings to keep their leverage?

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4

I find the idea of the Fire Archer very strange. All archers are fire archers after the Burning Pitch upgrade…

It would make sense to give them a burning ability that burns buildings so they are effective against them. Which ironically the Southern Fire tech does lol

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5

With or without burning pitch, gastras and fire archers suck vs buildings.
In fact, they suck so hard they are hardly worth the population.

This is the way.