Camels do wreck knights. You’re forgetting that thry train faster too, so they are not only supply efficient, and cost efficient, but time efficient too.
Not in Castle Age they certainly don’t “wreck” Knights. Again, another reminder that Camels have only 6+9(Bonus)-2(Knight Armor) = 13 attack vs the Knight’s 10. And the Knights attack 10% FASTER.
So vs the Knight’s 11.
To that…
already showed you how one sided the trades are a long time ago.
So winning cost effectively, supply effectively and time effectively isn’t dominating?
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About dominating your opponent.
I’ll refer you to this.
A month ago. 10 vs 10 results show nearly double resources lost for the knight player and he spent 80 seconds more building his army.
Equal time spent producing takes that double and makes it triple the resources lost. If that isn’t dominating I dont know what is.
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by the way stop spreading false information. The only way the knights would get extra damage out of that extra attack speed is if the fight lasted long enough for them to get an extra attack in.
Extra attack speed is not going to add extra damage until well into the fight, and by that time the knight very well may be dead already.
1v1 it might matter but if youre taking 1v1 fights with camels vs knights you’re either saving time for something else or you’re not fully committed to the fight
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Can we stay on the topic for one time?
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Mat Cauthon made it specifically about Camels
My initial post on camels here was totally in a comparison to the GC situation
So why are you targeting me? When I was originally totally on-topic?
Tell that to @MatCauthon3
Are you singling me out because my balance posts are unpopular here (but in accordance with many pros and pro streamers) ? Or because you don’t like that I like changes and strong UUs
I didn’t target you, you were the first who stated that camels are underpowered (and not for a comparison with the GC) so I answered to the first post that got the discussion off topic.
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It is clear that original post was clearly using Camels as an example to make my point on the GC, which is 100% ON -TOPIC.
It is only when @MatCauthon3 replied only to the camel example, that it became OFF-topic.
Now you come back on-topic instead of bringing me down to this rabbit hole
GCs are better than Camels, by virtue of being Ranged.
Regarding the relation between camel and GC:
- camel is directly made in the stables, so it requires the same investment of knights
- camels beat in equal numbers knights
- camels are cost efficient vs knights
On the opposite, GCs require a huge investment, the castle and they need to be massed (1v1 they loose).
The point was that it is not acceptable that the only feasible fight, i.e., crossbowman + GC vs knights is balanced as more crossbowman vs knights. The huge castle investment + the extra cost of GC should make the italian player to dominate in that scenario. Otherwise he will go just crossbowman. Which is pretty undesirable for a civ having a anti-cav UU.
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Would be better if devs reduced their TT to 16 and 13 (elite) seconds
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Imo the TT should be equal to ckn
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Maybe, though I am still not convinced. GCs just murder Cavalry, because they are the only Ranged counter to it, and can stack damage to quickly bring single targets down, while Camels or Halbs cannot do it.
If you have 6 castles 11
You will never mass them because they are trained slowly and castle is required. Either a huge TT buff or give them Halbs because they can do nothing vs cavalry 1v1. If you start making Genbows in the castle age your opponent tech switches and if you make them in imp you never mass them because your opponent will punish you
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Just a curiosity… is GC better than ckn vs paladins?
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Yes, it is. It has a lot of Bonus damage. It is also better against Mangudai and Camel Archers, even Elephants.
But camels can pursue knights to the end of the maps, GC can hit them a few times before they are out of reach (and they need ballistics for that) then they can’t keep up. Though, if you consider that GC may hit them even when approaching, the 2 units are roughly balanced.
I mean both units have good aspects, the problem is that building a castle for training a counter-unit that train so slowly it’s not worth it, camels instead are more easily accessible.
Not necessarily that much, while it should be, it’s also true that italians don’t depend so much by GC like chinese are with chukos.
Yeah, that’s why most US don’t ask for a buff of its stats, problem is that they don’t win 1v1, so you need to mass them, less than a standard xbow, but still more than what you can do now.
On paper, yes, but in reality since you can more easily mass chukos, they deal with cavalry a lot better. Even longbow do a better job that GC vs cavalry.
The fact that GC is more situational should be one reason more.
I mean, GC is useful in some situations. If you take forever to have a useful mass of GCs, you will just use a different strategy, say pikes or massing xbows