Germany has always been one of the strongest civilization in this game, regardless of their lack of musketeers in age2, their age3 shipments are by far the best shipments in the game and atleast half of the civilizations are getting no effective answer to deal against Germany.
Considering the overall civ balance of aoe3, every civ has atleast more than 3-5 MUs that doesn’t go well for them, however it never applies to germany since they have one of the strongest shipments in age III.
What could be done?
In order to not effect age2 play of Germany which isn’t performing that significant, nerfing their overperforming age3 can be possible by increasing the Shipment penalty from %110 to %112.
Now seriously:
Whenever Swedes are nerfed, Germans becomes the next power civ.
They have quite a few design flaws, but the free Ulhans + Settler Wagons, gives them both an economic and military edge, in the Fortress Age.
This change would actually heavily penalize Age 2 play, and encourage Fast Fortress builds even more.
If you give a civ a slow Age Up process, or a bad Age 2, they will just go for Age 3 even harder.
Fortress is already the best Age in the game, where you get Falconets, Dragoons and Skirmishers, which are the Crossbows and Knights of AoE3 (Meta units).
Can you please provide specific examples rather than just “they’re strong”? I play as Germans frequently and agree they’re not underpowered but I don’t think I’d put them in the overpowered category either.
I think it’s wrong to think that Germany is still overwhelming enough to deserve a nerf. They still have their weaknesses, and the best way to defend their attacks is to prepare for the Uhlans.
Every civilization has weak sides, the issue with Germany is, they are mostly not punishable in age II, which helps them to get to age III without actually paying a penalty, and once Germany is in age III, there is not a lot of things to do. Their shipments are just superior compared to other civilizations, like 9 black riders, 12 jaegers which is equal to 25-30 skirmishers, also since uhlan hp nerf got reverted, germany gets a lot of free and strong uhlans in the field, which results germany to get the millitary lead in most situations.
It’s inaccurate, the current list is not a personal opinion list but rather based on the game experience and thoughts of most competitive players in this game, even the top players that play germany don’t deny the fact that germany is overperforming. Germany is almost unpunishable and doesn’t require variety, you can do similar build orders against most of the civs meanwhile you have to adapt when playing as most of the civs.
Germany has one of the biggest winrate while not paying penalty in most situations, the strenght of germany allows you to ignore most of the situations and do the causal semi FF play with the best age III shipments. so it obviously needs to be adjusted in this regard.
They are. Germans do not have Musketeers or Skirmishers in Colonial, so you can really steamroll them with Ports Early Dragoons, or Dutch and French, with their Early Skirms + Hussar.
Germans have a really good Fortress, despite not have the 2 Falconets shipment, because Settler wagons allow them to plow through Colonial, and they get an abundance of options in it.
Skirms, War wagons, Falconets, Veteran Uhlans that finnaly do not just die to Hussars… Fortress Age has everything the Germans want.
In Colonial Age, however, you can break the Germans, rather easily, just by sniping their Settler Wagons. Colonial Uhlans are not strong enough to fight Hussars, and their Infantry can do nothing vs Skirmishers or Dragoons.
Ports early dragoons are not an effective option, also almost every causas player has consensus of germany vs dutch match up, it’s far from being comparable, germany just beats in that matchup.
About France vs Germany, German player can just send the 8 bow shipment +2 uhlans and minutement to hold the france push, then can follow up a semi ff meanwhile france is losing most of it’s units, so that age2 play to punish germany does not benefit france at all.
Settler Wagons have 400 hp with 0.30 RR, which is not actually allowing players to snipe them, Colonial Uhlans are strong enough to fight Hussars aswell, In fact Uhlans have an edge over Hussars in age II. Germany also has skirmishers and goons are overall weak, It is not easy understand those parts.
I’ve not seen a single top player complain that Germany is too strong. Also win rates aren’t published currently so I’m not sure where you’re getting your information from.
That’s inaccurate, most top players don’t involve in balance discussions in the forums, and win rates would not give the proper result unless we are looking at top100 win rate or data like that, because things can work differently in lower levels where balance matters less, but when it comes to competitive level, Germany is just performing better than most of the civs.
Germany has one of the biggest winrate while not paying penalty in most situations,
Yet you can provide no data showing what their win rate is and now have said that win rate doesn’t matter except for the top players which is true but we don’t have that data either…
It’s inaccurate, the current list is not a personal opinion list but rather based on the game experience and thoughts of most competitive players in this game
So if the top players don’t weigh in where are you getting your information from? If you believe Germany is too strong then fine but don’t act like there’s some general consensus and then fail to provide any evidence.
The situation in Germany and China is very similar, and it is dangerous in age 2.
The value of the German cavalry is about 1.5 people but it is free, forcing the Germans to upgrade their units.
The card of age 2 has 3 Settler Wagon. I think the German cavalry of this card can be removed.
European countries are strong after they have Falcons, I think Germany is in a safe position
that is a quote from a personal perspective to answer a concern from a detailed perspective, not from the main topic itself, please don’t show it like the main part of the topic it’s misleading.
There is no mention of no top players don’t weigh in this situation, most of the causal players including the ones that play germany agree with the fact that germany is doing comfortably good in most of the situations. And also I suggest you to discuss about the topic rather than directing personal emphasis, taking a piece of writing and manipulating people won’t do any good, at first it doesn’t help you, then it doesn’t help anyone.
To be fair this is the second thread where I’ve noticed you’ve posted (first complaining about Ports being underpowered, now this one about Germany) based on your opinion without data to back up your assumptions. I don’t know what ELO rating you play at, but the game is balanced with more high-level players in mind. I agree that at lower ELO levels, some players may find certain civs more or less powerful based on their inability to micro or because some civs are just more hands-on, but that doesn’t make them overpowered or underpowered.
Germany’s bonus is that their shipments are received 10% slower based on XP (which translates into more than 10% slower in time if you consider seconds in which XP is earned), but are more powerful. You shouldn’t nerf their bonus to make them just as equal as every other civ’s bonus. For example, Spain doesn’t have nerfed shipments though receives them with 27% less XP. Should we reduce their shipment quality because of this being their civ bonus? Should we ensure that Britain cannot boom using manors so that their civ bonus cancels out against the villager second cost to build manors?
That is inaccurate, especially in the other thread I posted so much details including data, also please avoid personal attacks, thanks.
I agree, game should be balanced based on causal level win rates and that’s why I brought general opinion of causal players opinions.
Spain doesn’t have 6 villager shipments in age2, neither they don’t recieve free 2 cav with every shipments, spain also doesn’t have overpowered age3 shipments unlike germany, 12 Jaeger and 9 Blak Riders are just so strong shipments, and the issue with germany is that they are not paying that much penalty against rushes, that is how things work in competitive level.
I usually FF myself when playing against Germany. Once everyone is on equal tech, Germany is not so scary anymore.
WW can be countered with skirmishers and muskets, Uhlans can be everything that touches them, and they lack the 2 falcs card, so a swarm of infantry usually seals the deal.
Muskets don’t really counter WW, WW has 18 range with the upgrades meanwhile Muskets only have 12 range, and WW generally does great against artillery, the only disadvantage WW has is it’s speed. Other than that, WWs are performing fine.