Get rid of "L" shape when creating walls now!

Relevant thread:

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agreed, it would make the placement less sensitive to errors.

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Maybe allow L shaped wall if one of the side is of 2-3 squares long max. if both sides go over that, allow only straight walls…

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10-year old me: But how will I make my huge walls of hugeness to keep out the easy AI?
Current me: DO THIS NOW.

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One of the community member already created an optimal wall solution that is interactable (@SalamanderRobot)

Age of Salamanders: Tile Indicator /Optima Wall (codepen.io)

And, he also created a ‘find a hole in the wall’ qol improvement in the same page. Check with space bar, by hovering the mouse in the tiles.

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I made a suggetion about the holes very long time ago too.

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I disagree. I don’t mind “L”-shaped walls and probably want them 30% of the time. I say leave functionality as is; I’m used to it by now, and don’t mind making walls in sections or using whatever workaround(s) is/are required. The game is 20 years old; let’s not get too carried away with changes

Or, better yet (to suit everyone’s needs), I propose an enhancement:

  • Keep the existing functionality as is, but as you’re placing a wall (before you’ve let go of the left-mouse button to place it), be able to hold the SHIFT button to force it straight-shaped or CTRL to force it “L”-shaped. Problem solved! :slight_smile:
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Or the times you intend to make a straight piece, but on the last tile it places 2 walls next to eachother.

@Darkness01101

:call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face::call_me_hand: :crazy_face:

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Great to see that there are still many people interested in this QoL suggestion :smiley:

You can find the full discussion in the Optimal Walling topic.

If you want to see it in-game, you can test it with the Age of Salamanders scenario (as mentioned by @SlinkyRobin8549 ).

I also made an interactive JavaScript tool only for this L-shape issue (with comparison to the current implementation ; open it in full page for the optimal experience):

https://codepen.io/nvandernoot/full/MWaGMbL

There are in fact 4 different configurations when joining two wall end points. In the JavaScript tool, you can use the mouse wheel (or right click) to switch between these 4 configurations, similarly to the placement of gates in DE.

You can play with the aforementioned JavaScript tool to see something similar (but using the mouse wheel for 4 configurations instead of 2). :wink:

Nice, this would fit well with the Dijkstra Tile Indicator suggestion :wink:

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Dude - what’s wrong with posting about the Salamander thing?
I literally had no idea that the Salamander thing existed until I read this post today. Accordingly, if no one had posted about “the Salamander thing,” I probably would never have known that the Salamander thing existed. Just because you may have seen something (in your opinion) too many times, doesn’t mean that everyone else has.

And I have to say - I’m a big fan of the Salamander thing! :slight_smile:
@SalamanderRobot This is an awesome implementation to solve this problem!

I don’t know if there is a way that we can submit this as a feature request, but I think it is one that definitely should be implemented!

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Same. I didn’t know Salamander either before. Besides, Salamander has proposed a really good idea which is relevant to this thread.

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Great idea. 100% support. Also well done man. This forum almost never agrees on anything and you received 30 likes in a day. Thats historic.

If anything the wall could have a toggle option in the menu that’s default set to walls can only be placed as you recommend. And for the eccentrics they can toggle it to lay walls how they currently are in game.

While we all admit it’s a great idea. It’s pretty low odds of actually being implemented into the game…

Why don’t they just remove the L algorythm, how hard can it be?

For years players have been posting about this, what needs to happen to make this nobrainer come through?

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Finally, an actual good suggestion.

I always liked the idea @SalamanderRobot proposed as the fix.

And I think, ironically, AOE3 has a better walling system. Maybe we could use that too

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Yeah its ironic that a more modern game has better mechanics… Like how units can have multiple modes of fighting or realistically use different pop. So ironic

But more importantly aoe3 grid system and the walls are calculated is vastly different.

Im up for it, but GL convincing your pro conservative buddies… Apparently nothing ever needs to change…

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I do use L shape wall from time to time. in rare circumstances building turn out the way it is sometimes single command of L shape wall will cover entire area instead of having doing two commands of two straight wall to form L shape.

do not remove this.

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Cool, but I like my idea with SHIFT and CTRL better :slight_smile: Middle-mouse button rolling while holding left-mouse button down in the salamander thing feels unnatural. I know of no other games or apps that use this; or if they do, it’s the last thing I’d try, and so have never stumbled upon it.

I don’t need the salamander thing, but the salamander thing is pretty cool

Also, I’m able to completely avoid dropping an L-shaped wall down 100% of the time. (That ability might make me an uber-elite AoE player, then, since it sounds like elite players struggle… based on words above.) I don’t, personally, know why this L-shape thing is such a huge deal… but if the devs add the SHIFT and CTRL modifiers I suggested anyways, then problem solved!

@Darkness01101

Also, I’m able to completely avoid dropping an L-shaped wall down 100% of the time. (That ability might make me an uber-elite AoE player, then, since it sounds like elite players struggle… based on words above.) I don’t, personally, know why this L-shape thing is such a huge deal… but if the devs add the SHIFT and CTRL modifiers I suggested anyways, then problem solved!

IIRC you mainly play SP… What kind of a troll are you?

People want to optimize this feature for online play, where players have hundreds of apm.

I disagree. I don’t mind “L”-shaped walls and probably want them 30% of the time. I say leave functionality as is; I’m used to it by now, and don’t mind making walls in sections or using whatever workaround(s) is/are required. The game is 20 years old; let’s not get too carried away with changes

Or, better yet (to suit everyone’s needs), I propose an enhancement:

  • Keep the existing functionality as is, but as you’re placing a wall (before you’ve let go of the left-mouse button to place it), be able to hold the SHIFT button to force it straight-shaped or CTRL to force it “L”-shaped. Problem solved! :slight_smile:

What the…

Thank you for the positive messages about the ‘Salamander thing’ :smile:

In fact, I am rather optimistic this could be implemented in the game for the following reasons :wink:

  1. Among the various topics about this walling stuff (Optimal Walling, Option for straight walls, Proposed improvement to wall placement, Age of Salamanders, this topic…), this feature seems to get love from the community.
  2. I do not have access to the code, but I think this feature should be quite straightforward to implement. When a straight wall is not possible, I assume the game is computing the junction point position between the two L-shape segments. In such a case, it could be done just by replacing this part of the algorithm by a function similar to the wall_end_points() defined here (JS section). If it is not the case, it should still be an easy feature to implement (way easier than any pathfinding improvement).
  3. AoE2 developers seem to take into account posts in this forum, especially if asked a lot by the community (so any help in promoting it is welcome :grin:). They even insisted on it in this video posted last week.

This choice of the mouse wheel is from the feedback I received on this topic, in order to be coherent with the gate rotation. The good news is that the gate rotation control can be tweaked in the options. So, it would most likely be the same here.

Here are some video samples: Hera, T90.

The ‘Salamander thing’ still allows to build the traditional L-shape wall (even two L-shape walls, you can test it in the JavaScript above).

PS: Before this post, I never called this idea the ‘Salamander thing’ (but rather the ‘Optimal Walling’… which was illustrated in the Age of Salamanders scenario about different QoL suggestions). But I am perfectly fine if you call this the ‘Salamander thing’ :smile:

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The irony isn’t AOE3 being a newer game
The irony is that AOE3 is a bad game with a few good mechanics
The bad mechanics include that multi-pop idea of yours (units with 14 pop for example)

Correct, but you still can implement it

Unfortunately, that’s just your mindset
If you mean the balance topics that propose unbalancing units or mechanics that will automate stuff, then yes, the community is right to disagree.

Also, always the majority matters, not one person

1 Like