Is it possible to give the Mayans and Chinese their extra villagers immediately after building their initial TC? I don’t think the faster TC build time was thought of when nomad maps were created (or at least no one knew how strong it is). It would make nomad maps much more fun when everyone has a fair start.
If this isn’t possible what about slowing the TC build time of these two civs to equal that of every other civilization? Essentially 6 and 4 villagers build a TC in the same amount of time as 3 villagers at the start.
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Hmm that’s weird, a lot of civs have a bonus for a Nomad start, sure Mayans and Chinese are strong but that’s not a reason (+ Chinese literally start with 0 food). Your idea is like making Celts lumberjacks or Spanish builders slower, or Malian buildings more expensive before they build their first TC. Or making Huns having the same starting wood and then somehow taking it away from them when they finsh the TC.
On nomad starts there aren’t standard resources usually so the civ that starts with food could also run out of food to make villagers since you aren’t guaranteed food resources at the start. That indirectly nerfs most civs. It’s not as big of a deal for Chinese since they are already up three villagers and can spend more time scouting for food.
Also if most pros complain about how it’s such a civ win and it just becomes Chinese mirror matches then I guess they are onto something. You never hear them complain about the other bonuses that you mentioned before building a TC.
i agree it is boring having 90% chinese on nomad.
It’s probably more of a way to prevent vil/TC wars than anything. Every game devolves into them since nomad was put in the ranked pool.
Oh that’s a lot of good arguments. I gotta admit my argument was meh since this suggestion is technically doable by making the extra villagers spawn after the TC is built (the inca llama already works like this) but I thought of that since the title say “every civ”. Maybe renaming your thread to something like “Suggestion to balance Chinese in LN” would make people understand/find your thread better?
I guess at the lower level it’s a civ win because more villagers to fight or garrison but at the higher level it’s about producing villagers earlier and getting a villager lead. Either way it’s a civ win.
I don’t think it’s a level only thing by any means. You get that sort at every level that is willing to go all in to try and win quickly. Higher level players know the advantage of not doing it, sure. But that isn’t always a deterrent.
It certainly happens more because of the civ picking and putting nomad in the map pool though, as you’re giving players the chance to pick Civ with impunity. And then no way to avoid people like on Voobly who do this. In the past you just wouldn’t play with them again, which happened quite a lot in those lobbies if someone was known to always vil fight or tc war.
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Good news for you, they did change the Mayan and Chinese bonus so that it would work like the Inca llama.
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The nerf for Chinese/mayans are terribly thought out. Chinese are the absolute worst nomad civ due to this change. In the very best scenario, they can barely keep up with a standard civ in nomad now.
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For mayan it’s fine. It’s a nerf but you still end up with 1 vill ahead.
For chineese it’s different. They were n°1 before the nerf, now i think they are normal. Haven’t tested yet, but i think it’s good.
Still very powerfull on steppe.
The huge issue is you can’t dock and suffer from an even slower start than other civs do. The instant +3 vils is nice, but you have 0 food and you have idle TC for at least one and a half villager (even if you get a boar instantly). Since they start with -50 wood and 0 food, have to spend all initial villager time to sustain villager production, while other civs have a tc and a dock up and can send villagers to wood right at the start to produce fishing ships.
Chinese are guaranteed to be behind all other civs.
it’s so obvious that whoever came up with this change has never played nomad (at a competent level). The worst thing is that they made chinese even stronger as a generic civ (by giving chinese block printing).
RIght now persians are unquestionably the strongest nomad civ.
Who cares if Chinese are bottom tier in Nomad? Huns have always been super bad at this map but since they are meta everywhere else it doesnt matter (Civs need to have weaknesses after all). The block printing thing might be overkill tho if it proves to make Chinese too strong against siege.
Huns have never been bad at nomad. the -100W means they can’t dock immediately (which chinese can’t either btw), but the saved wood and villager time of not having to build houses makes up for it relatively quickly, and can do dock a bit later.
They’re only bad on Land Nomad on which you start with less wood and have to delay the town center.
The point is that it kind of forces everybody to always pick civs in TGs which ruins the fun. Nerfing chinese start at specific maps like nomad solves exactly nothing, the issue with chinese is that they’re a little too strong in generic maps as well.
viper said that Chinese have never been the #1 civ at nomad even in aoc.
https://www.cysion.be/aocbox/?p=880 Not everyone had always have the same opinion it seems. I still agree than the Huns bonus will catch up faster. However, regarding LN picking, the fact that you would be forced to pick Chinese because of the unfair advantadge is MUCH worse than being afraid to get Chinese while clicking random (after all when you do this you already accept to risk getting bottom tier civs)
Maybe so. I obviously do not have the means to disprove Viper’s opinion. But the Chinese are still one of the best civilizations on Nomad and broken on Steppe, not to mention majority of the Nomad ranked games, players used Chinese much more often over the Persians. This is what I know for sure. It did needed to be addressed, but I agree that this was not the solution. I really think it should have just been 1 Villager tied to the TC, as I originally pitched on Reddit. Would have been much safer and wouldn’t have significantly altered how the Chinese play on those maps.
Personally, I’m more annoyed that the Mayans got affected. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Mayans on Nomad and Nomad start maps.