The problem with the Donjon isn’t just that it is underwhelming on its own, but that it is forced to fufill the role of watchtower while also acting as an intermediary defense between a Krepost and a Guardtower and it fails in both roles.
As a replacement for the watch tower it fails because it cost an additional 25W and 50S and takes additional 10 seconds to complete. The advantages it brings are +400hp being 2x2 that it having 5 extra garrison space. The +400HP is very useful in a tower war I would argue that if a tower manage to force a Donjon and temporary deny a resource it has paid for itself. You would think that the extra garrison space would be very useful in a tower war scenario however the max extra is capped at 4 the same as a watchtower which can be reached with 4 archer or 7-8 villager so there is no incentive to fill your Donjon. The 2x2 size does allow Donjons properly placed to range the entirety while allow it to be repaired safely though the extra size can be cumbersome.
Compare that to Teutons who get 10 garrison space but have up to 8 extra Projectile meaning they can straight up defeat a Donjon without repairing and they also get free murder holes.
In Castle Age they get +250 hp, +1/1, 1 free extra arrow, and 2 extra max arrows, they get this for free while Guardtowers have to be upgraded for 100F 250W. However I would still consider the superior defense they have the same Hp and armor and 7 attack which allows them to reach an important damage threshold they can now deal 2 damage mangonels. unfortunately Crossbows are not quite able to fulfill the requirements to get 4th additional arrow meaning the Donjons has a distinct advantage in terms of volume being able to fire a max of 8 (same as the teutons). Unfortunately the only units willing to brave tower are usually only those with high pierce such as Knight, Eagles, and Mangonels meaning having 9 attack is weighted more heavily.
In imperial age it has the same Hp and armor as keep with 2 free extra arrows and 9 extra max arrows while still having 5 attack meaning that Arrowslits is a necessity think of it like a watch tower with the Teuton garrison bonus and Yasama. In terms of eco defense I would rather have Tigui Tc with their lower stone cost and five projectile and 15 garrison space.
My proposal is increase attack to 5/6/7 add +1 vs Siege and increase Hp to 1250/1750/2500. I would also like to Searjeant to be equivalent to villager in terms of Garrison strength. If this is too powerful than nerf should be made to it’s cost and build time rather than its stats.
Edit this slip my mind but they should have 6 max extra arrows in fuedal.
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The original intention Donjon is to replace the tower.
So far, I don’t think abandoning the original intention is the right thing to do for the game.
Sure, it deserves some improvement.
In addition to what you suggested, maybe:
- Provides 5 population and benefits from the team bonus of Slavs.
- Serjeant builds Donjon 25% faster than Villager build Donjon, same goes for repairs.
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you paying 25W and 50S for 400 HP and 5 garrison The problem is that in 95% of case a tower is perfectly fine and in clutch situation those 10 seconds of build time can really hurt you. The only way to have it adequately fulfill that role is to further reduce the cost. By giving Sicilians watchtower you are also freeing Donjons to pursue their own identity.
This is the only justification needed against ops proposal.
Donjons are fine. It just comes down to Serjeants not being a very good unit, since part of the reason you build them is to make Serjeants. Buff Serjeants and Donjons will be used more.
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Make Sergeants able to build Donjons 100% faster like the TC/Castle bonus, and able to help build castles
I would prefere a buff to donjons since they are at least ubique and interesting. But havif Watch tower would be a decent alternative to at least plug a hole since atm donjons is a civ malus basically instead of a bonus
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Donjons are not fine. They have several problems over a regular tower, like High cost and bigger size, making it basically impossible to have an eco for build them and serjeants. Both donjons and serjeants are simply not cost effective
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I think it would be best to switch to 50% faster on all stone fortification 100% on castle’s was ridiculous and 50% is still very strong.
Then I couldn’t FC, siege tower, and castle drop on my opponent’s TC on arena. Most fun you can have with this civ
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Yeah I definitely enjoy having Sicilians be able drop castle’s as if they were quickwalls
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I think +400 HP and the ability to train a unit is compensation enough for it costing 75 resources more. Serjeants probably need -5g but, as part of a slow push, they are quite solid in Feudal.
The only flaw you can attribute to the Donjon is the fact that in Imperial age it falls short vs units with high pierce armor because it gains extra arrows instead of increased attack.
Just delete Sicilians and give Incas the gimmick of tower UB and feudal UU
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Donjons are 25% more expensive, but only have 25%more HP and no more damage than a basic tower. They are easier to rush with villagers, hardwer to wall with palisade, require more time to build than a tower (relevant in tower vs tower fights), and being more expensive is a big flaw.
Serjeants also need much more than just -5G…they need -5F and -5 G or even -10F so to cost 50/55 F and 30 G. They also need elite upgrade cost reduced significantly
I mean there is a reason no High level players ever go for donjons rush or feudal serjeants rush if not to troll or have fun. Pros actively aknowledge donjons sucks
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