Give THS atk Bonus against Trash

Historically two handed swordsmen were used to break pike formations.

This would justify two handed swordsmen and champions get +3 bonus damage against halbs and skirms.

It would also give the unit the same reason to exist in game, as it hat in history.

Champions are already considered good against trash but they often don’t fair to well enough against mass skirmishers

2H swords don’t need a bonus against trash for the same reason that knights don’t need a bonus against archers - they’re already good against them. Sure, there are some civs with bad infantry that also miss the last armor upgrade, and they don’t do too well against super trash (Imp Skirms, Burmese Halbs), but by and large, the militia line counters trash lines well enough for their cost.


They are good, but I fell they are not good enough to have a proper role as trash destroyed. Just like you said, there are super trash or no FU Champs that wont counter.

I think the unit should be balanced to always crush trash

It does. There are exceptions based on different civs (Goths being susceptible to Elite Skirmishers, and Burmese having super Halbs that can kiil even other Infantry), but by an large, your Generic 2H or Champion is the all-round counter to all Trash units.

These exceptions is what i am talking here about. Like aztek skrims counter basically all champions but malians. I dont think this is right.

What would you say if frank paladins were uncounterable by halbs. just another exception?

It is right, as Aztecs are specialized at killing other Infantry in general.
Jaguar Warriors, Garland Wars and Atlatl Skirmishers are all supposed to make Aztecs win any trade with just damage alone. Aztecs are OP by design.

They almost are. Frank Paladins crush Halbs something fierce, and even when they do not, Franks get Throwing Axemen and Hand Cannoneer for the explicit purpose of making sure their Paladins never have to face an unfavourable amout of Pikemen/Hablberdiers.

First off, that’s wrong. Aztec skirms deal with champions better than normal Skirmishers, but they are by no means a counter to champions. Skirmishers fire extremely slow, don’t have 100% accuracy and have minimum range. That all makes them particularly susceptible to melee units.

And even if you were right and aztec skirms were apparently a counter to champions, how would giving champions attack bonus vs them solve this issue ? The whole point of skirmishers is that they can kill from range, so an attack bonus for the melee unit doesn’t solve anything.


Especially Goth Champions that need to be buffed. I’ll leave it at that.

Goth Champions are the exception.