Giving Steppe Lancers a niche

I think your math is off somewhere. If franks could get paladins out in 2.1 seconds each they would have been hard nerfed by now.

an increase of 100% work rate would reduce the training time of knights from 30 seconds to 15 seconds.

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Edit: thought about it again that math is a naive assumption and most likely incorrect.
You should think about it as follows:
A normal stable produces 1second of training time per second, a stable with chivalry produces 11.4 seconds per second a stable with chivalry and conscription produces 1.41.33=1.862 seconds per second.
therefore a knight of 30 seconds is produced in 30/1.862=16.11 seconds

Edit: auto formatting ■■■■■■ it up quite hard, no chance to fix it on the phone

The faster training time could apply only to the elite SL, to avoid quick spam at early castle

Other solution is to reduce the food cost and introduce a wood cost. It would have a wood food gold cost. A weird solution, but is a niche.

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simply reducing the food and gold by 5 each might also help, if the 3 resource requirement is too weird

reduce elite tt from 24 to 20sec.

edit: reduce elite tech from 900 /550 to 600 / 450, the elite tech is WAYYY too expensive, and clearly left over from when the unit was OP, in comparison the cavalier upgrade gives the same upgrade in stats for 300/300

re-assess after that…

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Imo steppe lancer could make much more sense as an anti-archer unit. Just give them high pierce armor (2 in castle, 3 in imperial), keep the base damage very low and add a decent bonus against archers. They will die to almost any melee unit, while at the same time performing well against archers. A specialty niche unit, in summary.

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It’s 15 with conscription and chivalry, and I believe 12 seconds with hun bonus. 2 second Paladin is just absurd and would be broken af, especially in DMs

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Giving them greater than original speed would be a cool buff but they will still remain niche. In castle age, they have to compete with the much stronger knights and hussars are more logical and a much safer research in imp.

Their unit cost is just weird, they cost 10 more food than knights when food is produced slowly, and they cost 45 gold. Their stats are nerfed badly enough that they aren’t really justified over the practically infinite hussars in imp.

Then there’s also the Elite upgrade cost which is absurd at 900f 550g, higher than cavalier, heavy camel and the hussar upgrade. It makes investing into them even more questionable.
These two factors must be worked towards if they’re to be made meaningful

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for me it seeems like devs designed the SL, they were OP, so they nerfed them into a oblivion and forgot about them, choosing to rather balance the rest of the game and leave the affected civs being as competitive as they were and then later only balancing in “mainstream” ways, as opposed to addressing this weird alien unit they had created, and chose to rather leave it in limbo…

yeah exactly

just be aware this also rolls over on tatars, so if anything might need to have their UT not affect them otherwise you have 8PA ESL…

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LOL you are right, I don’t know what passed through my mind to made such error, or better, to not see it…

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Forgot about that…should probably exclude steppe lancer from that tech then

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most likely blood… :slight_smile:

With too few caffeine :joy:

But still, the idea of a reduction of the TT may still work.

A cost adjustment would help too, but less than a TT reduction in my opinion.

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It’s okay for them to be niche. Right now they’re not niche, they’re useless.

In my ideal scenario, you’d make maybe 10 of them and zip them around the map tactically, doing whatever you need doing. Maybe you use them to raid their villagers one moment, then you pin their archers from behind the next, then you have them back up your heavy cavalry in a big battle the moment after that. Because they have superior speed, they can be everywhere you need them to be.

I like the idea of reducing their upgrade cost, but that won’t be useful until after you’ve already buffed their speed.

That scenario already sounds pretty well for Light Cav Line, you have the same result for 10 more food and without gold cost. Plus, +1 PA… why I would like to invest gold in SL?
I think SL should have something else, they are already the second most faster cavalry. Idk if buff the speed is the way…

Not quite the same. Their +1 range is their defining trait, it’s what makes them different. They just need the opportunity to use that range. This makes them profoundly more useful than lcav when you can gather them around a single unit, for example. The fact they can sit behind a fight and contribute without exposing themselves to risk is also a big factor.

They just need the speed to make their advantages useful and functional.

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That would actually be pretty bad. The brain is shielded from blood through the bloos brain barrier, leaving the brain surrounded by cephalospinal fluid. Many particles cant cross it, remaining in the blood outside the brain. This is for example what makes heroin different from morphin. Morphin cant get into your brain while heroin can.

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Buffing their speed back isn’t a bad idea because let’s be real their speed was only nerfed because of the old version of the Cuman speed bonus.

Reducing the elite upgrade is also a great idea, there is no reason for it to cost so much right now.

Btw wouldn’t the increased collision size they got work against that?

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The problema is the design of the unit, it was design as a Main cavalry unit and used the +1 range and numbers to do well.

It worked to good and they decided to nerf it (I don’t know how broken they were, didnt play the Game from reléase).

If they can’t get that role back because of balance, they need a new one… I really think the role that would make the least changes on SL is an Anti archer cavalry, and it would be good because their speed would make them good against CA too

This topic keep returning.
IMO unless there is buff in hp/cost/attack/armor, it will still be underused. Speed cant help their combat enough

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The problem is 1 range is too much to micro in imperial war. So you ended up using mixture of cavs and hussar more efficient than SL.

So SL absolutely need a buff in castle age when they shine in small fights