Good RTS Gameplay Handling like, Smart select, Auto Production, Smart Gathering, Auto Attacks, Resources Abundance, Pathfinding, Build Grid, Compact UI, Map clearing size & Choke Point

Age of Empires IV IV - Discussion
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Good RTS Gameplay Handling like, Smart select, Auto Production, Smart Gathering, Auto Attacks, Resources Abundance, Pathfinding, Build Grid, Compact UI, Map clearing size & Choke Point…

Well after play a lot recently AoE2 and more modern RTS like Cossacks 3 or StarCraft II.
I did notice there might be some very big difference between what would be considered for 2020 basic and self-explanatory Gameplay elements.

Sure for StarCraft: Remastered and AoE 2 Definitive Edition people did accept it does play the way it was. AoE2 is after all over 20 years old and there have been some very heavy changes within the genre. That do greatly change the Handling of an RTS. Let’s take a look at some points, maybe you have more.

Smart select
Starcraft2:
well you are able to select all combat units with one key
also you are able to select only combat units, even if workers are on the area
in AOE2 you still have max 40 Units and can not by mass selection leave out workers, which is bad as you have to assign them again to their work places.

Auto Production
Cossacks 3:
well you can swap between produce 1 unit or automatic produce units, even if you dont have the ressources yet, the game will wait up till you have and start the unit production.

Smart Gathering
C&C
I find it very odd how in C&C the harvester can easy start to look for new resources by himself and even find them, but in case of AoE something like a fishing boot you have to manage him.

Auto Attacks
that’s very controversial, as you can simply assign units to attack first what they are supposed to counter, like skirmishers would first attack archers, than other units. I don’t know if its really fitting into AoE, as it would simply very dumb down the gameplay. Another thing is if units are set to search the map and auto attack first thing in sight.

Resources Abundance
maybe the most critical point for an RTS,
resources run out, so you have to fight over their control with your enemy.

This can result in so many design issues

-resources are infinitive, so the fight never ends
-resources are too much, no strategy just spam-
-resources are too rare, no strategy just control 1 or 2 map areas
-resources run too early out, game get extreme boring

Pathfinding
AoE
Well a very lost feature is as units move in formations, archers and priest move behind trooper,
but not simply that they do fast assemble and move very fluid all together
you might not believe, but that feature is for very odd reason lost these days.

Build Grid
C&C and Starcraft2
OK, why is a feature that does show buildable space and size the building will take not everywhere?

Compact UI

Especially this feature did very downgrade over the years.
Just compare a modern game vs old game

I have there a very simple question, there is already a lot happening on the screen as it is RTS, why aren’t the essential informations like mini map and current resources and population, idle workers not together ? Especially this should be fixed, Monitors are these days way bigger and UI is these days a very big mess. And why do they all just make one default option for UI?

633×768 566 KB

1200×675 273 KB

Map clearing size & Choke Point
Another thing RTS do these days is to have very small place for the buildings and a lot of “natural” not destroy-able obstacles, compared to the wide areas we have by AoE.

I personally think this Starcarft2 like map design is a bad thing, as most other RTS are not about flying units, but anyway it is copied and pasted almost everywhere. I really would like to have again or big, clear and clear-able areas from AoE. Like if you use Onager to clear trees.

What you think ? And Any ideas of other handy gameplay elements AoE4 needs or shouldn’t be there?

2 Likes
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1-Battle Mode
AoE4 will be a base building rts.and i love it.But also i like relic style capture the point battles.Also it is better for field battles(similar to manzikert,agnicourt)

2-I wanna see a conquest mode similar to RoN(yes i know,it seems impossible)

3-Bring more strategy to sea battles,and make great ships similar to age3

4-Don’t neglect the campaigns.

5-Give us single units,and give us an option that allows us to do make squads.

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If a player would be able to pick from 3 various UI’s and customize by own choice, that could be great.
Things like;
Icon position
Icon grouping
Icon sizes
Various Math calculus available to player (like own resources, settler amounts, (custom projected amounts)). AoE3 had most of these elements, although not all to be used in multiplayer mode.

1 Like
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+1
Having additional game modes is a good idea, but I doubt we are going to see ships at all.

It would require for the developer to understand, by RTS proportions ships have to be made smaller, than they were in reality, to fit on maps.

1 Like
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Yes,but i really want a viking campaign.little ships are ok but i think they can bring more strategies to sea battles

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Please no to auto-queue

3 Likes
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Agreed.it makes game for kids

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So is it for AoE4 up-to-date to hire each unit separately?
The thing is, since AoE2 release did over 20 years pass, or 2 decades.

Original game 1997 was about managing 50 units,
now it goes by latest update even to 500 units limit.
The handling of “small scale RTS” requires quite different tools than “large scale RTS”.

Sure in other RTS its different situation. Company of Heroes 2 you have handful of units and Starcraft its very fast, you have to manage several production buildings, they don’t need it.

But its quite annoying for a large scale RTS, that you can’t pre-order units and buildings, like in Cossacks and Supreme Commander.

Why not be able to hire with mouse click 1 unit,
press shift pre-order 5, press ctrl and pre-order infinite ?

1 Like
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(Unless I am overriding a feature this way):
For button control, it could be ‘right click’ on mouse instead of left click to generate continous use of clicked ability/feature. Various spells in various games (Ex Dota 1 & 2) uses that feature.
However… unless we are talking beyond 500 units… its probably a dumbing feature.
Everyone would use it on settler production.
The more Micro-intensive tasks would have available more time and attention thanks to such a button though.

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NO to autoproduction because it is anti-macro.

NO to units automatically attacking the units they counter because it is anti-micro.

NO to resources never running out as it is anti-map control.

. . .

Wow, I thought autoproduction alone was gamebreaking. I still think that, but I never imagined that somebody would suggest two other features that remove the micro and map control aspects of the game as well as the macro. Is the OP seriously not a trolling post? How much more anti-RTS can you make an RTS than that with those changes???

No.

Way.

This is getting silly. I can’t even bother to fear all three of those changes being implemented together. That would be utterly hilarious if it wouldn’t be so devastating to the game.

3 Likes
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Smart select
Starcraft2:
well you are able to select all combat units with one key
also you are able to select only combat units, even if workers are on the area
in AOE2 you still have max 40 Units and can not by mass selection leave out workers, which is bad as you have to assign them again to their work places.

You can do all this too in AoE2DE

4 Likes
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The thing is -

1 several years passed, and we have no communication how they are actually designing the game and gameplay

2-current developer of AoE4 “Relic” who made Dawn of War and Company of Heroes, have exactly those features in their games= autoproduction, units automatically attacking and resources never running

3- their last games like AoE Online and Dawn of War 3 were very bad

Thats why I do think, its not wrong to talk about it.

Considering how companies running things these days, imagine 1 months Prior to release to hear they made AoE4 Simplified, with autoproduction, units automatically attacking and resources never running, because thats how Company of Heroes is or how they assumbe “modern RTS should be”, and they cant do nothing about it, release is next month.

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We don’t have for AoE4 the team and engine from AoE2, we have team Relic and their engine.

Dawn of War 3 does not have smart select. In Dawn of War 3 you can’t even change hotkeys by the way and that’s in RTS from 2017.

https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/10242/remapping-hotkeys
https://community.dawnofwar.com/discussion/10181/change-keybinds

Especially for an RTS adjusting the keyboard is such a self-evident feature.
How was it possible for an RTS developer to release 2017 a game without changeable hotkeys?
Exactly this developer is working right now on AoE4.

Change hotkeys is a must-have feature.

3 Likes
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I think they realise AoE4 is a different fish size, I would be shocked if there werent customisable hotkeys at launch.

1 Like
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Sorry,im a bit pessimist
But i think aoe4 going to be a dow3.
Maybe it will be better than dow3
But it will be worse than aoe2/3
Look at other strategy series:
Total War:look at last total war games,they are same games…

Forged Battalion:Developed by Petroglyph,successor of the westwood.They created C&C,Red Alert,Star Wars Empire at War and they were really good rts games.but look at forged battalion,it is sooo BAD.

Stornghold:stronghold 3,really bad game…

DoW:DoW I & II was good.but third game is terrible(developed by relic)

So i mean other games failed,im afraid aoe4 will fail too…
(i still have a hope(: )

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“shocked” is indeed a good description if people launch modern RTS games and its missing lot of features you had in several years older predecessors and gameplay wise is so much made wrong.

Gameplay wise they present so extreme atrocities, I wonder how they are not able to see it themselves? No matter what genre people do play, they expect a fluent and smooth game, RTS these days are rather clunky.

Apparently people who work these days on RTS games don’t know how to design RTS games.
Its just the conclusion based on their work.

I mean, imagine if you would be in charge of any of those projects,
-would you release a game where people don’t have an explanation what Strategy is there, how units are supposed to counter each other for example? But they do.

-would you release a game where people don’t have a counter Strategy, as they have to use exactly the same unit to counter same unit ? But they do.

-would you release a game where people don’t have appropriate tools to play them, like not have enough resources to build what they need? But they do.

-would you release a game where people don’t have for several minutes nothing to do? But they do.

And all those small and big mistakes, combines to only possible conclusion to have a bad game.
A game so bad you won’t pay for it. But developers and publishers don’t understand.

All they are doing is randomly revamp and switch things, instead of actually update and polish the gameplay to be enjoyable. RTS developers seem not to know what to do anymore.

1 Like
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add cameras location hotkeys and a cycle button.

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The mentioned mechanics are already there in those game so why not play them?

Why are you trying to force fit these to AOE 4?

AOE 4 is AOE4 it has it’s own original ideas and it is awesome the way it is. AOE 4 is not meant as a replacement for RTS games, it’s just another game in RTS genre, so play what you like. If you like other mechanics which is present in other games play them.

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I agree with you that the characteristics of different games should not be forcibly combined into one game. But I don’t think we should drive away these enthusiastic people. It is the people with these fantasies that create ES studio.
I once saw an interview in which it was described that all people have the right to put forward any ideas they want. Even a young man who has just arrived will not be ridiculed and expelled for giving advice to senior people, even if the discussion in the elevator has not stopped from entering to leaving.
Finally, I don’t want to be named and ridiculed, and I don’t want others to be expelled and ridiculed.