You forgot chemistry.
Can we condense these last few posts with edits? I’ll just delete it, just add the correction in with an edit or something. I feel bad taking up five posts with “We forgot chemistry.” I’ll delete this.
Ok, I forgot Chemistry, that is true.
they take 2 damage. Portuguese also lack squires making their champs almost undesirable.
I understand where you’re trying to go with this but FU champs with 39 food & 13 gold and produced almost instantly is pretty ■■■■ broken, not to mention FU Huskarls will break some balance that existing civs have with them, and the cheap FU halbs to complement it
2 Likes
I have never advocated for Goths to have Platemail Armour, however, I just wanted to prove a point.
Goths should not remain a One-Trick Pony civ any longer, as that One-Trick is not longer good enough.
I think we should give them Plate Barding Armour, so they would atleast have FU Hussars, for when Infantry just does not cut it.
All other Infantry civs have at least one other unit that complements their Infantry (which is the hardest to use unit type in the game to begin with, as pathfinding is still not great, and if it ever gets fixed, then Cavalry will overshadow Infantry by a wide margin). Goths should have some too.
They have Hand Cannoneers and Bombard Cannons but, by virtue of being Gold costing units, they get in the way of the Infantry spam that Goths are supposed to play with.
Goth subpar Infantry is only efficient in production speed, but gravely lackluster in all other regards, because Siege and Archers are actually an over-efficient counter against them.
If they had FU Hussars, they would atleast have some support for actually getting into Melee range.
The gold cost of hand cannons does not stop them from spamming halbs, and halbs with hand cannons handle a huge variety of units. If your opponent is heavy in skirms, just put out 10 huskarls and that’s the end of the skirms.
Not really. 10 Huskarls are not going to do much in a real game.
Specially when they die to most Melee units.
You may have a choice. You make melee units that aren’t on a horse, which dies to Hand cannons, you make melee units that are on a horse, and they’ll die to Halbs, or you’ll make no melee units, and the Huskarls will ruin you. You can’t have it whatever way the goths don’t have it. And you can’t assume the civ with explosive production to simply fail to make whatever units it needs unless it simply fails to play the civ well, at which point it’s irrelevant to the balance of the civ.
1 Like
Yet almost everyone, inculding The Viper, is calling for a buff to Goths.
Top Players do not rely on the lategame army as a balancing point because reaching the lategame with a chance to win is based upon the civ’s strength in early and midgame to take them there.
Arguing that the Goths lategame army is bad is a bad argument, which is why we’re still arguing. They don’t need a late tech. They might need help to reach the lategame they already have.
1 Like
By the way, Hera’s opinion on civ balance.
1 Like
I never said I didn’t like them. Now you’re putting words in my mouth. I actually have over 100 rated wins with them in DE. I doubt you do. I play Goths mainly in team games because I know they’re sub par in 1vs1 matches. Especially after this last patch. The only way I played them 1vs1 is on closed maps such as BF or Arena. (Aside from when they had 35% discount Dark age last patch) And now the state they’re in it’s not even worth doing that. Not to mention they took BF out of the 1vs1 rotation.
We wouldn’t be having this discussion about buffing Goth infantry further if Microsoft didn’t put supplies in the game. That itself is a total nerf to Goth gameplay IMO. Berber Cavalry discount is WAY better than the savings you get with Goth infantry after everyone can research supplies now. Mayan archer discount is better than Goth infantry discount too. The Slavs get supplies free even. Their infantry is already cheap starting in Feudal age.
As I stated before, the power creep in this game is the reason Goth infantry need to be buffed. Let alone they still need an economy bonus too. And every other infantry civ in the game has something to compliment their army. Goths don’t. Slavs/Celts got Siege, Aztecs got Monks, Vikings have FU Arbs/Siege Rams, Japanese got Towers/Arbs, and Burmese even have Elephants/Cavalry in general. What do Goths have? A Hand cannoner? Big deal. They’re easily countered by Elite Skirms and take a long time to get on the Battlefield and creation time etc. When a fully upgraded Elite Skirmisher does 4 damage to a Goth Champion in late Imperial there’s a problem with that honestly. And 5 respectfully if you’re playing Aztecs. Last time I checked all the pros go for the armor upgrades first for a reason… I’ll leave it at that.
1 Like
Supplies was a great tech, however, as it made Militia line units viable in Castle and Imperial Ages, which they were really not before.
The problem is not Supplies, but that the devs did not compensate Goths, which were already terrible before, for not having Supplies.
Because Ranged units dump on Infantry way too effectively, which both in real History, and this game, have lead to the development of Armour.
It is true, however, like you said, that the entire Goth army can be beaten by just spamming Skirmishers and Hussar (or some Champions).
A Gold-intensive army being beaten by mostly Trash, is a huge issue with balance.
Personal Opinion… they nerf so much the Goths with the last patch, and it hurts so much… 
… this is my suggestion to attemp to fix them.
- Reverse the staggered discount. And instead, give 10% discount on DA -> 40% from Feudal-Imperial. those 5% extra to compensate the Supplies tech gave for every other civ.
- 10% pop cap increase in Imperial. In 200 pop games, 10 more pop is nothing.
- Give to them the last armor upgrade from Cavalry and Infantry.
1 Like
You can’t have both lol. They are missing it for a reason.
2 Likes
Well, the Cavalry Armour upgrade would not make them OP or even all that great in Imp Age, just give them FU Hussars.
1 Like
The cavalry one can be debatable yes, but the infantry one is a complete no-no. You give infantry last armor, you need to nerf their discount to compensate.
4 Likes
I think we can bot agree on that there is no reason why Goths have no Plate Barding Armour, as they have neither Paladin or any Cavalry bonus.
I actually have no idea why they are missing it.
Out of curiosity, why are you banned on steam forums? ;o
1 Like
Some guy called the forums “dogcrap”, and I told him that HE was “dogcrap”.
1 Like
About the last armor upgrade…
Why not?.. reading so many arguments, almost every civ has another form of compensation (eco bonus, military bonus, new units to counter infantry, etc.) to counter infantry goths. They need this compensation… or at least giving it to the militia and pike line (since I imagine giving to the huskarl is the contention point).