Granadero a caballo buff

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

I think the granaderos are a bit overnerffed, they can’t kill artillery, barely can kill villagers AND they aren’t exceptionally good at destroying buildings (something that the description says they are). They are defenseless against artillery masses like gatlings, organ guns or horse artillery just because they can’t fight back (oh, a mass of abuss gunners also melts them) and if you want to siege probably the pikemen, halberds, or doppels as the germans, are a better option.

My suggestion? Leave one of the negative multipliers against artillery or villagers but not BOTH, give them maybe 15% siege armor or a grenade launcher, and if none of these are a option at least buff their melee damage so they can kill villagers without needing 3 or 4 volleys of grenades.

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2

Mounted grenadiers need a new card to activate them at the stables. Furthermore, they need to be a true grenadier-type unit—strong and robust—rather than what they currently are: a weak, cheaply produced horseman.

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Yeah, doing a quick game i found that with 50 maxed italian granaderos 3 volleys where needed to destroy 5 veteran falconets and only at 65 granaderos the volleys were reduced to 2. And to destroy most buildings in two volleys, 65 granaderos were the absolute minimun

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That is the problem with adding new revolutions without first addressing the existing ones; hopefully, the developers will update and fix the old revolutions so they can be on par with the new ones introduced later.

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5

I agree, but the question is, how should they be improved?

Some options…

Option 1:

Add the Barbecue card and make it work with Livestock Pens.

Add a card that deconstructs mills and plantations, reimbursing us for the cost in wood, and that enables the construction of haciendas for gauchos, settlers, and architects up to a maximum of 6 haciendas.

By automating Argentina’s livestock economy, we are freeing up population that we can use to train more units, which we can combine with the grenadier, making it easier to use them for their siege and anti-infantry role.

Option 2:
Reduce its population cost from 2 to 1 and add the Cavalry Combat, Advanced Arsenal and Industrial Revolution cards to the revolutionary deck.

Basically a classic buff, it allows revolutions to begin a little earlier, slightly improves the economy of the revolution, and allows the unit’s deficiency to be compensated for by numerical power.

Option 3:

We no longer lose the settlers; they now become gauchos, and the gaucho is now functionally a mounted settler who gathers resources 10% faster.

Change the mounted grenadiers to be a revolutionary equivalent of the Elmetti and add the Cavalry Combat, Hand Cavalry Attack, and Hand Cavalry Hitpoints cards to the deck.

Give San Martin an aura that increases cavalry movement speed, the attack speed of all units, and the training speed of military units by 60%.

Add the Infernals and have them fill the role the gaucho previously held.

Add a card that deconstructs mills and plantations, refunding the cost in wood, and allows gauchos and architects to build up to 6 ranches.

Increase the limit of cattle that Argentina can train to a maximum of 60.

Add the Patrician as a replacement for the Guerrilla; in practical terms, it’s a Guerrilla with promotions that increase attack range and speed.

Add the Barbecue card and make it work with Livestock Pens.

Remove the Citizenship and Criollos cards.

My favorite option: Completely change how the revolution works. Unfortunately, I know the developers will never take this option. T-T

Secret Option:

Give San Martin an aura that increases cavalry movement speed and the attack speed of all units.

Reduce the penalties for the mounted grenadier against cavalry and eliminate the penalties against artillery.

Add the Cavalry Combat, Advanced Arsenal, Hand Cavalry Attack, and Hand Cavalry Hitpoints cards to the deck.

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6

I think the main issue is that the revolution doesn’t have a defined identity. Do you want to play cavalry? Chile or the Cossacks are much better. Do you need strong infantry? Peru or Colombia are your best choices. Do you like historical units and thematic cards? Napoleonic France or Confederate Germany have you covered. Argentina doesn’t have any of the above. It isn’t very fun to play, and it can’t turn the tide of a game with its flagship unit nerfed into the ground. At least Livonia gives the player an iconic, powerful unit and fully embraces the “win or die” nature of the revolutions.

Anyway, the game has barely been resurrected, so a full overhaul of the revolution is very unlikely, and a buff to the Granadero is probably the best we can expect.

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AND PLEASE GIVE SAN MARTÍN SOMETHING. An aura, the ability to plant a flag, build forts, or even receive shipments. Anything! Just make him more than a glorified bullet sponge.

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8

I agree, San Martin needs something, and it occurs to me that it could be fun if San Martin were a hero in the same style as those in Warcraft 3.

Since the developers added a counter for units killed, I think you could use this as an equivalent to experience.

Each unit killed by San Martin would grant him more damage and health, but in addition, every 10 units killed by San Martin would allow him to unlock new abilities.

For each enemy killed, up to a maximum of 100, San Martin increases his health and damage by 3%.

Level 1: 10 enemies killed.
Passive Ability: Febo Asoma: Cavalry units attack and move 10% faster.

Level 2: 20 enemies killed.
Automatic Ability: Charge Attack: Deals damage in a 3-point radius.

Level 3: 30 enemies killed.
Febo Asoma now affects all units, not just cavalry. Additionally, cavalry units under its effect gain +2 area attack bonus.
Charge Attack now also doubles the damage and increases the damage radius by +2.

Level 4: 40 enemies defeated.
Passive Ability: Liberator - Defeated enemies have a 25% chance to resurrect with full health and join your side.

Level 5: 50 enemies defeated.
Active Ability: Corvo Death Strike - For 10 seconds, San Martin is immune to all damage and his damage is increased by 500%.

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I posted a thread about reworking all the Latin American revolutions; it includes all the units and technologies for Argentina that could be added to the official game—provided, of course, that the developers agree and give the green light to include some of the Home City cards and units featured in the post.

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After reflecting on it for a while, I came to the conclusion that the unit’s role doesn’t make much sense. It’s a heavy cavalry unit that neither has high melee attack nor a large health pool. It’s tagged as light cavalry, yet it can’t beat any kind of cavalry (although it does perform well against most light infantry). It also functions like a grenadier but, once again, lacks the high HP and melee capabilities that define the unit, and it can’t destroy buildings nearly as effectively as regular grenadiers.

So the question is: is this unit supposed to be heavy cavalry that uses grenades, or a grenadier that happens to ride a horse? (I know that sounds redundant, but bear with me.)

If it’s the former, then make it a true melee cavalry unit that uses grenades for siege, with a charged grenade attack as a special ability and make it trainable only at the Stable. If it’s the latter, then make it a infantry grenadier that retains the high HP and melee damage with area-of-effect of a regular grenadier, but trades the standard 50% ranged resistance for the ability to mount and dismount and make it trainable only at the Artillery Foundry. In either case, its population cost should be increased to 3 to compensate for the improved stats. Sadly, as it stands, the unit just isn’t particularly fun to use or especially useful

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11

I think the issue with mounted Grens is that they were insane at one point but without the raw insane stats they just can’t do anything anymore.

I think making them a ~mounted Fire Thrower could do something. Give them a low ranged attack using siege damage with a ~4x bonus vs heavy infantry and a penalty vs cavalry. They would be tagged as light cavalry meaning they would be countered by light infantry and while unusual would functionally lose to cavalry. Given the siege damage (even with it being kinda low) they would soft-counter artillery. They should out-perform hussars at sieging, but you need to be careful with high siege cavalry. They should probably have a penalty vs vills, but keep it reasonably small.

A unit that hard counters Heavy infantry, soft counters buildings, artillery, and vills (even if largely due to the AoE) would seem situationally very good.

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12

Yeah… it’s a similar case to the Hakkapelitt, with the difference being that the Hakka was gradually tweaked until it reached a good place balance-wise. The poor Granadero, on the other hand, just received three or five nerfs back-to-back, leaving us with a unit that has a contradictory role, can’t be shipped if you have too many cows, and a entire revolution with little reason to be played

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