Guard Tower/Keep researched from towers

Today I played guard tower defense against a mangonel push and thought to myself, gee, I am investing so much into towers everywhere, fletching and bodkin, and I have to get an university up, plus 100f and 250w, is there no way this could feel more smooth?

We see tower defense extremely rarely when getting pushed in the castle age and the response to mangonel pressure is always a defensive siege workshop- but what if you could forego the one minute of building an university and the 200 wood, and could research the upgrades for Guard Tower and Keep from a tower instead?

It still would be a strategy in very niche cases in which you already have stone and not much military and to prevent snowbally pushes, it wouldn’t add any strength to Feudal tower rushes, as it’s still a big investment for the 2 towers left over that are defenseless anyway and can be taken out with a single ram, and it would enable Japanese for example to go for Yasama towers a bit faster and without the need of 2 universities (if time is a concern), opening certain strategic choices for multiple civilizations- not just for the Koreans.


I am all for ideas that particularly help tower civilizations like the Britons, Japanese, and Koreans but it has to be done in a way that does not negate the Roman bonus that bypasses Masonry and Architecture. That bonus saves them a good amount of time. Perhaps giving them a Greek Fire tower would compensate (One that can be upgraded by the unique tech).

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I understand the frustration., but
But gameplay-wise thats the edge university gives over players who ignore it. Imagine if tower-related techs were researchable without Univs, we would see less and less of those on the maps. Eyecandy-wise Dont know about other players but i like seeing all those different types of buildings dotting the map in the late game, and universities are one of the more magnificent ones. And some players skip building universities even with tower techs researchable.

There is a via media, require the university before allowing the technology to be upgraded in the alternative building.

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I don’t see how those are related, the reason you get guard tower is to deal 3 damage to mangonels instead of 1.

We almost never see tower techs, only BBT, and uni is required in 90% of games that get to late castle age for ballistics and chemistry.

I don’t think there is a single reason to not have an university by the imperial age, and if it happens it’s a sign of improper macro and strategy choices. These techs are not a “eye candy”, they are a must.

But this makes no sense as you still have to invest in the 200 wood.

My consideration is how much it might buff tower rushing. Since you can upgrade towers without a university making your tower rush more viable long term.

But I’m not against it, I never upgrade my towers if I make them at all. I barely know exactly how it makes them better.


No this would be the death of mangonel pushes playstyle, few guard towers can stall a mangonel push forever for a very cheap price once you remove the necessity of an university to research the tech

What if you only play cav and don’t need any techs? Done, there is your reason :smile:! In all seriousness though, I do largely agree with you.


4 WTs: 700 resources
GT tech: 350 resources
Fletching, Bodkin: 450 resources
University: 200 resources

Most of those are stone and food, hard to come by.

Compare it to a forward siege and 2 mangonels: 200+590 resources, most of which wood and gold, easy to come by.

Not to mention mangonels can be repositioned or brought home later, whereas you can’t pack up your towers and leave.

Don’t underestimate Masonry, Architecture, Treadmill crane, even Fortified wall. Life savers in a lot of situations!

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Not really sure, but if you just want safety from mangonels I think you probably don’t need the attack upgrades?

I’d be interested to see how this change would play out.

If implemented, it might need to be reverted later, but I wouldn’t mind that myself.


You need them for the range and damage, and a guard tower without attack upgrades has the same damage output has a bodkin arrow watch tower so it would be kinda pointless without attack upgrades.

Sure, if we can research towers at the granary in Aoe1 then that researching tower upgrades in towers is not that far off

Attacker taking risk,spending resources but you can defend yourself with very low amount of res compare to attacker. That will make rushing pointless.

Imo the best way is to give towers individual upgrades like in age4. Then a single upgrade at the university can’t make your towerrush unstoppable or your tower defence unrushable. Instead you can buff a few important towers for map control so they aren’t taken out as easy.
I already made one proposal of that kind already. My Idea was to give towers high resistance to bonus damage, so they aren’t taken out as fast with rams + mangonels. But they would still die if you don’t support them, it just gives more time to react.

If you want to see some good guard tower defenses just watch Tatoh play in Wandering Warrior Cup - he is getting it every 2nd game 11 - so it can’t be that bad :smiley: .