The current representation of Gurkhas does not quite fit right in the historical context of the game. This chat is going to be an area to discuss how this problem can be resolved.
First of all, should Gurkha units be available to the Indian Civilisation?
Not really, as the Indian Civilisation is meant to be a representation of the Mugal Empire, and the Gurkhas never fought for this empire at all. The Gurkhas are a distinct group originating from Nepal and historically served in the military forces of the Kingdom of Nepal. Gurkha soldier only started fighting officially for the Indian Army after the end Second World War.
I understand Iâve made an assumption here saying the inidan civ is just the mugal empire but lets go with it for now
This chat is not about the how the Indian civilisation should be split into a number of sub-civs so please refrain from jumping into that discussion
So what would fill the void left if we removed Gurkhas from the Indian Barracks??
A suggestion I see quite frequently is this, the introduction of a new unit called the Banduqchis. In essence this new unit would act as a Strelets or State Militias counterpart being easily mass-able but overall weak. This will help make Indian armies look bigger as at the current moment they can look quite small due to the fact that elephant units take up so much population space.
Now back to the topic of Gurkhas.
There are two possible routes we can go down with Gurkhas:
They become a Native Unit
They become a Mercenary Unit
As a native unit they would become available on Himalayan maps and not require population space to be trained.
As a mercenary unit their access should be limited to only the British and the Indians as any other civ getting access to them would feel peculiar.
You fundamentally misunderstand the representation of India.
Gurkhas are an Indian unit for the same reason as Sepoys. India represents the colonized India under the British East India company. It is not an accurate representation of the Mughal empire at all. The military would need a massive complete overhaul to change that.
I donât oppose reworking India to move away from this very poor representation however I am stressing how massive of a rework is needed to make India actually represent⊠India.
Itâs the East India Company. Itâs not intended to be India, and likely never will be intended to represent India. As is typical with this game, itâs a way to explore European history through the vehicle of minorities and then refuse to use those minorities in a meaningful way.
well its a game after all and not a historic accurate simulator. Your way to argue about these things is so annoying and exhausting. History is just the history and aoe3 is a game. The History itself doesnt changed if we show India in the game in that way or in that way. Same goes for the native civs.
Also your sub liminal accusing about âAs it is typicalâ towards to the devs seems very unfriendly to me
Well, it certainly isnât, so Iâm glad you picked up on that. The original devs of the game werenât subtle about it.
Itâs a recurring theme with the game - the Native Americans donât exist in their own right, they only exist to explore American âexceptionalismâ in the context of their campaigns. India specifically only exists to explore British history in Asia, while China and Japan manage to escape mostly as their own figures.
Hausa and Ethiopians had better creators, and donât suffer from the issue, as they were made with a fair bit more care.
Sorry guys, was very tired when I wrote the OP and I think everyone here has slightly misunderstood the purpose of its creation.
I understand the Indian civ is a bit of a mess when it comes to representation but the purpose of this post is about discussing changing the role of Gurkhas in the game NOT reworking the indian civ.
However I will defend my position with a quote from the official fandom pageâŠ
In essence, I just wanted a way to have Gurkhas recruitable to the British Civ as they have been part of the British military longer than any other civ (bar the kingdom of Nepal). This could be achieved through making them a mercenary or native unit which the British (and Indians) get access to through a home city shipment.
Just for uniformity, Gurkhas should therefore appear in the tavern for all nations on Himalayan maps OR have a new native site with their own grouping of researchable technologies.
This new replacement unit could be just a reskinned version of the current Gurkha unit available from the Indian barracks.
Did Urumis fought for Mughals?
Did Brahmins explored for Mughals sitting on an Elephant?
Did Mughals build Sacred Grooves and worship Cows?
Did Mughals call their soldiers âSepoysâ? Whereâs Banduqchi?
Did Akbar ever even know about East India Company?
Did Mughals use Mysore Rockets?
Did Mughals not have the largest Horse Cavalry Force of their time?
Were the Marathas really Dacoits and Thugees? And were they recruited at Hindu Temples for Mughals?
Did Mughals build Char Minar?
Did they build Karnimata Temple?
Did they build Tower of Victory?
If your answer is no to all of them then you know how much a random mix Indians is.
Why are you nit picking only Gurkhas based on a random assumption that you made?
They will have to do significant changes to the civ to make them Mughals.
Eh, the way I see it, it does draw from the raj era India. But the faction presents itself as the revolutionary India which has already revolted from the brits and different people have come together to fight them as one. This story is somewhat represented in the campaign. And the reason why many different cultures and regional powers are present in the Indian roster. I would prefer this ensemble version of India rather than a split up version.
Like i understand why youâd be so passionate about correct representation, because in your case you belong to one of the faction in game, itâs âyour civâ. But the problem with indian factions are that there are too many and not too all encompassing. I can feel represented in the âumbrella civâ India is currently, because my culture is tiny, and if it is split into different âcivsâ, I wont be able to play them as âmy civâ. Right now, I can, as âindianâ civ.
As for the main topic of thread, there are ethnic gurkhas in India, so i donât think it is a big deal they are in the indian civ.
I can understand your angle on this but unfortunately AoE3 wiki is just outright wrong on the assumption, as pointed out above, the entire civ is a big mix and the British have a very outsized influence especially on the military units.
Whilst I love the idea of a Gurka removal/replacement to something more authentically linked to Mughal (the thinly-veiled focal point of the Indians civ - with the AI personality/flag emphasising that) ⊠it is the tip of the iceberg with India as a whole - the whole civ roster would need a big update (for the reasons others have mentioned).
The pessimist in me would say we have very little chance of that happening, unless we eventually get another Asian-focused DLC where it could be possibly justifed having a narrowed-down Mughal alongside Maratha or whatever. As long as Ottomans remain Ottoman and not Turkish, demonyms are still flexible.
