a) They were a powerful empire that was home to numerous non-German nations: numerous Slavic nations, Hungarians and Romanians
b) The Austrian Empire is not represented by any faction in the game. The Germans are a terrible generalization (same as the Slavs in AoE 2). The Niecms present in the game are modeled on the Prussians. Besides, Austrians are mainly Catholics, and Germans are Protestants - it has a huge impact on their culture. Besides, Austria has never been part of a “united Germany” - not counting the Anschluss in 1938 of course. Besides, the entire territory of Germany is a huge territory, which is a pity to waste for one civ.
Austrians - a Germanic nation
Germans - a Germanic nation
The Dutch - a Germanic nation
The English - a Germanic nation
Austria deserves a presence in this game. It was a separate empire with a unique culture and tolerance. It was inhabited by many nations. It was significantly different from its northern cousins. Besides, it would be a nice civilization - new units, new possibilities.
Reading your comments, I have the impression that you have never heard of the Kaisertum Österreich.
Saying that Austrians are the same as Germans is the same as saying that all Scandinavians are the same …
If the Danes appear, let the Austrians also appear in AoE 3.
Austrians, for example, vote over the Danes or the Siamese - that proves something.
The DLC could contain 4 new civs each, i.e. a European DLC would include Italians, Poles, Austrians and Danes. Sounds cool?
There would also be new DLCs from other regions of the world. The African DLC could have some more civs due to the lack of them in the base game (e.g. 5 new African civs).
in the beginning they where called the Spanish Netherlands, then they revolted against Spanish rule, but they where never part of the HRE.
we got uhlans and warwagons representing Austria and Bohemia (which was more or less directly under the control of austria)
Austrians are Germans, like actually Germans, they speak German and they at large have similar culture to places like Bavaria.
the Dutch are not speaking German, they speak Dutch. The British are not speaking German, they speak middle-english.
pretty bizarre having the emperor of the holy roman empire not lead the holy roman empire.
the subjects of Austria are represented by the revolutions for germans.
only thing that proves is that more people know of Austria.
the issue with making Austria is that it would split what is currently a perfectly fine civ in 2, like right of a sudden we aren’t getting 1 more civ, we’re getting 2.
Besides the Needle Gunner (Which shouldnt be in the game, introduced in 1841) what are the Prussian units then?
And before that they where part of the HRE? Emperor Charles V divided the Habsburg lands in a spanish and a German/Austrian branch, with the Spanish part and the Netherlands going to his son. Before that the Netherlands were a part of the HRE.
Uhlans are Polish though.
The Archduke of Austria was also the King of Bohemia for much of the time period, becoming King of Bohemia kinda kickstarted that whole thiry years war business.
Agreed.
In general I don’t think we need Austrians though, a new AI leaderhead for the Germans is all that is required really to make the Germans more like the HRE, and rename that HC to Vienna. If any seperate German nation should be introduced it should be the Prussians who really became their own nation during the game’s time period and are always refered to a such historically. It ofc is absend from the poll, but I don’t think the OP bothered to recheck this topic after the third day anyway.
Prussians/Danish/Poles is what the ideal European pack would look like to me. This gives us all the major factions for the thirty year’s war and the seven year’s war. I’m surprised the seven year’s war doenst get more attention from the devs as is, as it can represent many factions worldwide.
Even if I agreed with the Uhlans being Prussian, which I don’t. 2 units can hardly be called half the civ.
The German AI leader was just a plain horrid choice if the civ is meant to represent the HRE, also not a buildable unit ingame ofc.
The entire civ is based or part of teh 30 Years War HRE, and then Prussia later on. Even the manual description says they are supposed to be the Prussians.
" The Germans are a playable European civilization in Age of Empires III . The Kingdom of Prussia was one of the nation states in Germany and was a European kingdom from the early 17th century until the early 20th century. The Prussians fought several wars against France during the 18th and 19th centuries, usually with Great Britain as its ally. In the 1870s, the several nation states in German lands (including Prussia) finally united, resulting in the formation of the German Empire."
That piece of text does not state the playable faction meaning to represent the Prussians. Mentioning the German unification and its many wars against France seems strange considering the unification is beyond the games time span and the many wars it fought against Austria are ignored as well. The text does more to represent Prussia as its own thing than as a part of the HRE.
The change in the flag in the DE further cements what the Germans are meant to represent and that is the HRE.
It mentions the Austrians wars briefly in the history section though, in which Prussia gets its own little part. The small Baltic duchy of Prussia gradually began expanding in the sixteenth century thanks to good leadership and a growing military tradition. It repulsed Swedish encroachments in the seventeenth century and rose to real prominence under Frederick the Great in the eighteenth century. The Prussians were particularly noted for their disciplined infantry, elite Grenadiers, and cavalry. They fought a series of wars with the much larger Austrian Empire to the south, usually with great success, up to the Napoleonic Era.
I think it’s really weird that a nation which was so important in the game’s time period would be lumped in together in the same civ with what was basically its greatest rival (Austria).
I was not talking about the language, but about the branch of nations that use Germanic languages. German and English have numerous lexical similarities.
Both languages are linked by the word order in open questions (Wer kennt die Geschichte? / Who knows the story ?: interrogative pronoun - judgment - other information) and in closed questions (Beginnt die Geburtstagfeier um 15 Uhr? / Does the birthday party begin at 3 pm ?: judgment - subject - other information). Other grammatical similarities include, for example, gradation of adjectives (schnell - schneller; fast - faster) or the change of vowel in irregular verbs (singen - sang - gesungen; sing - sang - sung). When learning grammar, even knowing terms such as “Verb” and “Artikel”, which are very similar in English, do not need to be explained from the beginning.
The Germanic languages include, among others, English, German, Danish and Dutch.
Map showing countries where a Germanic language is the primary or official language
The current flag of Germans is the Sigismund of Luxembourg flag.
The Germans, however, are definitely Prussian. Their leader is Frederick II the Great. It was thanks to him that Prussia became the power that later united the Germans - apart from the Austrians and the Swiss.
The Austrians could use the black and gold flag, and have Maria Teresa Habsburg as ruler.
The HRE theme is more like AoE 2.
Well, so what?
The Russians can also trigger a revolution with Hungary. Is it true to history? No!
And in the case of the Germans, that doesn’t mean anything.
Austria and the rest of Germany were independent and separate from each other. Austria never united with the rest of the Germans, and they were two independent entities.
Or maybe that it is definitely missing in the game, and that it would be a more interesting civ?
Germans is didn’t perfectly civ!
The appearance of the Austrian civ does not mean sharing the current civ …
Where did this stupid idea come from?
Uhlans could appear in Austrians and Poles as a replacement for Husar. The Austrians would be given a War Wagon. In return, the Germans would receive two new unique units. The Ottomans received a new unit at Definitive Edition.
The Germans present in the game are the Prussians who united the Germans. There is no HRE or Austria here. Austria is simply not represented by them, and its lack is evident - a multinational civilization covering large swaths of Central-South Europe.
I think that the solution to the problem that would not affect the gameplay at all is the change of flags.
The Austrians would get the current one (the two-headed black eagle is the coat of arms of Austria. The flag of the Austrian Empire was black and gold. In AoE 3 we would have a black two-headed eagle on a gold background as the Austrian flag).
The current Germans would either receive a refreshed version of the old flag (from the classic AoE 3) or a new one - a united Germany.
There is. What do you think Zweihanders, Lizzipanner Cavalry, Wallenstein, Tilly, Treaty of Westphaila, and several other elements are?
They are not Prussian, they are from the History of the HRE, which is Austria.
Pandurs and Grenzers are already Revolutionary units in this game, so they will not show up on another civ, because they show up on Revolutionary civs, and are all Guard level units.
These are all German elements, it does not mean that they are typically Austrian. The HRE also included Northern Italy, the Czech Republic, and the Netherlands. It is impossible to represent HRE in AoE 3. They would have to have Elemeti as a unique unit, etc. Germans are simply Germans and the description itself says that this civilization concerns united Germans, not Austrians or broadly understood HRE.
Pandurs are Jaeger
Grenzers are Revolutionary
Hajduks are Renegado
Nothing exceptional. They are simply units that have already been in play with only changed names. Boredom…
So, to tell you the truth, we don’t have them.
In your words, the German card “Winged Hussars” sends you unique Winged Hussars …
Zweihanders were not used by Prussia, Lizzipanner was the breed of the Habsburg horses, Johann Tserclaes, Count of Tilly was the Field Marshall of the Catholic Forces in the 30 Years War, Albrecht Wenzel Eusebius von Wallenstein was a statesman and military of also the Catholic side, and the very Treaty of Westphalia concerned Austria much more than Prussia.
Those are all heavy Austrian elements in the civ.
Well, that is what units are in this game, they are all based on one of the base templates.
An Ahigaru is just a Musketeer with another name, skin and better stats.
It does, because at one point, they wanted it to cover Poland too, but never actually put a Winged Hussar model in the game, although apparently there is a Winged Hussar unit picture.
It can be said that these are all German units. Austria should be a more modern civilization focusing on the period from the rule of Maria Theresa to the Napoleonic Wars - then Austria was the most powerful and interesting. Medieval Austria was boring indeed, but would be more suited to AoE 2 than to AoE 3. Austrians in AoE 3 should therefore be a defensive modern civ focused on infantry and economics. It should show the multinationality of the Austrian Empire that was unique and distinguished them from the rest of the mono-national Germans.
A de facto new unit.
It could gain new nice models and completely different statistics.
Hajduk could be based on the English Archer, but of course he would have his own model and statistics. And he would use a hand-to-hand ax.
Pandurs would be closer to Janissary than to Jager.
Grenzers could be the Royal Guard - Skirmisher or Jager. The second Royal Guard would be the k.u.k. Dragoner - Dragoon.
A skin and better stats and we already have a new unit. Simple.
After all, recognizing Poland as Germany is a disgrace …
There should be three Central European Civs, and so far we only have one.
The Germans are a civilization of abuse, as if the makers wanted to make one civ for all of central europe, which is terrible.
Poles should be the new civ and Austrians too, so that Central Europe is represented in this game with dignity and historical truth. They should also appear next to them in the Italians and Danes DLC - then Europe would finally be finished and would not need anything else.
The current flag of the Germans is the standard of the Holy Roman Emperor used from the 15th-19th century.
If the Germans were to represent the Prussians, they would have named them so. As is they do an extremely poor job representing Prussia. The Prussian representation can be summarized in the needle gunner and its AI leader head. A Prussian civ would be a lot more focussed on Musketeers and Grenadiers which are even missing from the German civ. Instead they get a more 15th century unit roster that more closely represents the HRE under Maximillian I.
German unification is beyond the scope of the game’s era and should not be considered in civ design really. There is no united Germany in the games period, the closest thing we have to that is the HRE which they attempt to represent with the current Germans.
The Winged Hussar card represents the Polish lifting the siege of Vienna in 1683, the largest known cavalry charge in history. Another thing in the German civ that represent the Austrians I think.
All in all, I have had enough of this. We produce our ideas, and the creators will do it in their own way. What we write here are our dreams and we only exchange with each other.
We should demand from the makers of the Road Map for this game (for the series). Due to the fact that we are the owners of their product, we should get to know their intentions towards this game. They should at least provide a calendar when new updates are to be released (they do not have to write what they would apply to) and planned DLC (something like the Season Pass for Civilization VI).
And so we have one big unknown. We have to wonder if the creators will suddenly decide to abandon this game.
I don’t think there is any bond between the developers and the players.
I want to know when I can expect updates and a new DLC.
The actual end of the Holy Roman Empire came in several steps. The Peace of Westphalia in 1648, which ended the Thirty Years’ War, gave the territories almost complete independence. Calvinism was now allowed, but Anabaptists, Arminians and other Protestant communities would still lack any support and continue to be persecuted well until the end of the Empire. The Swiss Confederation, which had already established quasi-independence in 1499, as well as the Northern Netherlands, left the Empire. The Habsburg Emperors focused on consolidating their own estates in Austria and elsewhere.
That is probably their plan, but as it is, if you removed it to split in 2, people would complain that they want the old German back, because it is a very powerful civ.
The only change I would make to German, is changed the Winged GHussars card to Death’s Head Hussars, and the unit name to Death’s Head Hussar, as it would at least fit the currently shipped model much closer, and be yet another Prussian element to seal the deal.
No. not at all.
Prussia was way more modern and innovative, than Austria. Austria’s main period of historical significance, was precisely the 30 Years War, and the reign of the Habsburgs. After that, they just kept dwindling in power and prestige, all the way till WW1.
Pandurs, Hadjuks and Grenzels are Revolution units, and the way the devs tell they will never actually make those civs, as they already are in the game via Revolts. The devs are precisely telling us that they do not want to make a seperate Austria civ.
