Hadenosaunee issues in late game non-treaty games

I love this civ, its military and tribal ceremonies are great. But in terms of eco in non-treaty games, they got a big problem. In early to mid game they are great, because of the huge amounts resources from shipments. But in the late game, you have no relevant economic upgrades for anything other than herding farm animals. Once you put up the herding infrastructure (the most complex of all, in terms of buildings, micro and shipments), you can gather tons of food, while chopping lots of wood, but coin production is never enough. You end up with a very messed up macro, consistent of tons of food, some wood and almost zero coin (no matter how much villagers you got in the estates, the gather rate is so bad you never have enough to sustain military production).

It’s true, hauds have a trade card that exchanges all your food for gold, but this card is not infinite, so it is only useful for treaty.

Inca has the same problem with gold production, but they have infinite trade card that exchanges food for gold, so some inca players (myself included, i played tons of inca last year) do not gather coin other than early mines, and use the trade card as many times as needed.

With hauds, you end up having to choose which gold unit you are gonna put into your army composition, because you cannot have them all at once: cannons or musket riders or forest prowlers, but never together, because your gold production rate doesn’t allow it. And even limiting your gold units to only one of them, the gold supply is dangerously low.

The rework is lovely, but it is not enough. And i hope i am mistaken about all of this, but i can’t seem figure out a viable solution to the issue.


The changes work for treaty but as you said in late game 1v1 for example none of the new stuff really helps the coin eco as hunts will be gone and it’s unlikely you set up a full herdable food eco.

The Haudenosaunee and the Lakota suffer from poor gameplay foundation - their economies get worse and worse because they’re centered on natural resources, but neither has a mechanic to prolong or create their own natural resources.

The devs decided to approach this in the laziest way possible - Rather than implement civ-specific designs that could make them more fun, unique, and challenging to play, they just gave the two civs arbitrary and dull number boosts to make them use natural resources longer, or rely entirely on the home city to function. Either way, it’s stupid.

Both civs need a full rework from the ground up. When Riot reworks League of Legends champions, their playrate spikes and levels off significantly higher than before. Both Lakota and Hauds are sitting towards the bottom in how much players like them and how much players use them - they need a full rework.


Personally, i’m fine with lakota. Their coin gather rate is fine, and they have infinite bison, and we all know that if the game prolongs enough, the shipments tend to pile up, so resources are not a problem for them. I never had a problem with late game lakota.

But hauds are a different story, they don’t have anything like infinite bison. Infinite Canadian goons are not enough (9 goons need to be replaced very fast in the middle of a push, so, in the case you have shipments available, if you use them just for goons you’ll run out of them pretty fast). Infinite 1500 resource crates could give you just 500 gold every couple minutes, it’s not enough.

I was hoping the age iv card that gives you gold trickle while gathering natural resources would solve this issue, but the trickle rate ended up being almost insignificant. A possible solution would be a heavy buff to the card.

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I feel like the earth bounty card that was updated for Lakota should also be shared with Haudenosaunee - there’s a close to zero chance that you overpop vills or livestock boom in a team supremacy game so the north american trade card is not as good as for Lakota

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I have said it before, remove the estates, make the tribal market infinite after a tech and keep it being affected by the tribal market cards

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Haud at least can train cows. If you decide to play late game, just train and gather cows at 4* speed, and put 60-70 vills in estates.

Yes, but the transition to herding is very costly, in terms of shipments, buildings, production of animals. By minute 20 you gotta choose between having a decent eco but no military or having good military but falling behind in eco. By that time, most civs have both (military and eco). Hauds have to choose. That’s a design flaw.

Also, you gotta be microing your vills and herd animals constantly, which is a big disadvantage that no other civ have.