Please give the Poles just Halberdiers. I know it is too early to judge but I already see them struggling against all Camel civs and against most civs with stronger Heavy Cavalry (what’s no challenge against non-Plate Barding Armor Cavaliers without any power bonus) in games lasting until the Imperial Age.
They lack Siege Engineers, have no Archer bonus despite usable Archers, their Navy and Heavy Cavalry suck in Imperial Age and for the knight discount you first need a castle and then research the tech (meaning it often won’t carry weight before Imperial Age).
Otherwise will spamming Hussars be their only option? I’d rather have their Archers nerfed but get better late-game Knights or Infantry with a bonus in return.
Right now they are neither bad nor good at anything. A goal-oriented and more specific tech tree would give the civ much more personality and utility.
I think they wont get halbs while WHussars are better than regular hussars, they basically have the best trash unit with a bonus vs archers and trample damage.
I don’t see how these both cohere. Regardless I’d genuinely prefer their Hussars and Archers to be nerfed in exchange for either Halberdiers, Plate Barding Armor or even Paladins.
The Polish civ’s lack of specialization and their weak Late Game makes them subpar.
Anyway I don’t expect their Hussars to noticeably out-perform other civs’ trash units with even better ecos or military bonusses.
The trample damage will be too situational and useless for raiding while they only die faster to Arrow fire without Plate Barding Armor, both of which are essential for winning Imperial Age matches.
Erm… Best trash unit? It’s not even the best cavalry trash unit. The Lithuanians and Magyars have clearly better options. It’s a middling unit at best, pretty comparable with a fully upgraded generic hussar which doesn’t just fall over to arrows.
It’s definitely too early to call civ balance at the moment, but the Poles to me certainly feel very anaemic. The Obuch is a pretty serious unit. The Polish Hussar line is pretty poor.
Thus far I am succeeding in winning battles without the need of Halbs, but if they add them I won’t mind either.
My current army comp consists of Hussaria, Oboch, Swordsmen and Arbs. That seems to work fine. I would however like to see the Bohemains lose arb, they have castle age handcannon, hussite wagon, elite bombard AND Arbelester, I think if they lose arb and only get strong crossbow, it will force players to use both crossbow as well as hand cannoneers allongside the wagens and halbs and not just spam arbs. This forces you to focus on using a Hussite company as a unit ,all the soldiers working together behind the wagons ,retaining the civs ‘‘identity’’ and not have it divulge into just another arb spam civ.
Do you play ranked with a high elo? Just out of curiosity, since I’m never able to tech into this many different unit types myself while getting most of their upgrades in Blacksmith, University or Castle.
The Poles have a decent to strong early game, I consider it balanced but I’m certainly far from a pro myself - but all the times I played with or even against them I could see them underperform in Imperial Age.
I’m not asking for much, just one reliable answer in the Halberdier against the superior Heavy Cavalry of most other civs.
And I don’t see them improving their Cavaliers because of how cheap they are in Castle Age, which is probably fair.
The lack of halb is meant to push to toward the obuch more.
Played with them a bit more and found armies of infantry and cavalry can be brought down fast with obuch + arb.
Giving them halb would probably mean nerfing something else and I don’t want that.
Obuch + arb is such a fun combo to use right now.
I have seen Hera’s and theViper’s recent Polish mirror-match and in about equal numbers or even in favor of Obuchs, the knights still would clearly dominate.
You just cannot compare them to Halberdiers with their insane anti-cavalry bonus damage that don’t cost any gold either - which is hard to come by late-game, but crucial for Siege Units, upgrades etc.
Problem of Poles is not lack Halabardies but Strong Imperial Cavalry line. Poles have good start and shine in the Castle age and maybe Trash Wars. Lack of last armor is silly. Poland had one most best Heavy Cavalry in the Mediaval. In the battle of Grunwald Polish knights were same level as Western Countries. Winged Hussars are alright. Mediaval Version before they start to be heavy cavalry.
I want to mention that Poles have to strong Archery Range.
Oh good heavens no. I only play against Hard AI, the only time I play MP is with friends and family. So I am no voice to go on with regards to MP scene. I appologise if I caused any misgivings.
I think the devs aimed to let people use Oboch + arb against such heavily armoured enemies. Even Paladins armour gets chewed away by Oboch and then they fall like flies to the arrows of your arbs.
But don’t take my word for it, I am just enjoying the civ that I have been asking for ,for years now.
I don’t even want to discuss historical accuracy but I wholeheartedly agree that instead of a great Archery Range, their Heavy Cavalry or Infantry should get improved.
That would give them answers to army compositions they can’t face with the current tech tree, while keeping them balanced.
That’s fair, against the AI I can certainly see it work. Against similarly skilled opponents probably less because Obuch and Arbs are both gold units that require a lot of upgrades.
Their Archers don’t benefit from any bonus compared to the ones of Britons or Ethiopians and miss the last armor upgrade, so I don’t consider them the civ’s strength anyway.
I can’t tell you how glad I am because of this, I am so bored of the monotenous arb spam of the pros. I want clashing of sword and steel, not exclusively arrows flying back and forth all the time.
I didn’t say they were like halbs on their own, but they are very strong when combined with archers.
Not every civ needs halb and civs that don’t have halb typically have strengths in other places to compensate.
Giving them halb is asking for a nerf.
Poles need halbs. How are they otherwise supposed to deal with heavy cavalry and especially paladins?
Obuchs are OP imo, but they aren’t strong enough against heavy cav. to fill the role of halbs.
(Obuchs are overpowered, because while being cheap to upgrade and being the cheapest infantry UU for 1 pop in the game, they are incredibly tanky and strong, defeating for instance the berserk, the game’s most expensive unit to upgrade, not to mention their v impressive pierce resistance).
But if you do that they are Slavs/Teutons bis. While no pala/armour/halbs is going to make them harder to play in the late game, it does make them unique as a civ that relies on non FU cav and an infantry UU.
I have been having alot of success by teching into the UU in Imperial. They’re very affordable and cost effective with the Winged Hussar. Imperial Camels have prevented a huge problem as well and I do mix in some pikes if I can. As a result I have had some success though personally dealing with Paladin civs is the hardest. It really does feel like you are just throwing your units into a Meatgrinder to literally be pushed back.
Still early to say exactly what the poles will need so I am content to wait. In the meantime I’ll just play the Bohemians with mass Monk+Halb in TG.
They will only be unique in the aspect that they get destroyed by any Heavy Cavalry or Camel charges. They will be neither Slavs not Teutons because both these have strong Siege, Poles don’t even get Siege Onager or Siege Engineers.
Besides Poles are infantry focussed already, you wouldn’t change much with Halbs. They also differ much from those 2 civs because Hussars and stone mining are their strength.
