people shouldn’t be able to re-roll til they get a perfect start or whatever it is they’re looking for. it’s a waste of time
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They probably don’t want to play nomad. Blame the game that took their freedom away, not the player.
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I agree on this, there should be penalty for doing it consecutively more than twice at max. Hasn’t affected my games at all, but I can understand the pain of others.
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There are FOUR bans in the 1v1 queue, this behavior should be unacceptable, if they didn’t want to play nomad they could either ban it or be playing somewhere else instead of wasting other people’s time.
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For 20 years you could log on and just have a map in mind you wanted to play, for some reason they took away this fundamental choice. There is no significant reason why it has to be like that. The game is there to blame, and if you support that system which limits others, it’s the price you diserve to pay for being shortsighted.
If he doesn’t support it but is stuck with it, then I truely feel sorry for OP.
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Blaming the game I’m happily playing and enjoying seems pretty obtuse when the problem is clearly the map dodgers that are better off playing unranked or switching to other platforms instead of wasting other people’s time on a ranked system they’d rather not be playing.
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I’m happy that you are happy. However it is very telling that you will not even consider or accept a system that will make everyone happy. As long as you are happy, it’s good enough. And to go even further, you are willing to ridicule others because they simply ask back what was taken from them.
Thank you for putting your selfish character on display.
I would be very happy if the devs considered alternative ranked options for those that are unhappy with the current matchmaking system, I do not think it is perfect as you seem to assume.
But that’s not even the point of this post, the topic at hand is map dodgers wasting other people’s time, I do not think the community should tolerate unsportsmanlike behavior.
Good, then you agree that unhappy players are not the root of the problem. This is obvious since it did not happen in the past or on other platfroms.
Slightly confusing since you contradict yourself, but okay. It’s good. These people who leave the game are not there just to annoy others, they just feel left out by the current system.
I just read your comments again on my MM for everyone topic, I think you made many unreasonable arguments however you concluded by saying that a ranked lobby would be welcome. I don’t agree that the main playstyle should be banned to a seperate ranked lobby, I think it can be combined in a reasonable manner. To say it differently, the main MM system should be designed with the most popular playstyles in mind. However I will say that if a ranked lobby is the only thing I am going to get, I will take it and cherish it like a precious gem. At least it is a solution in the direct sense, only not the best and in a just way. (Currently it shows elo in lobby, but the lobby still does not allow ranked play)
Unhappy players are not the problem, people who dodge maps and waste other people’s time are the problem.
One could argue that some of these players are unhappy with the functionally of ranked matchmaking, and that’s irrelevant, what’s relevant is that you use whatever platform you choose to play on as its intended, and do not act toxic by dodging maps and sending players back to the queue.
I’m not sure where I contradicted myself. I understand that dodgers are not there just to annoy others, but it’s a consequence of their selfishness and this post is calling that out.
By all means, voice your concerns about the current system, propose ideas, give the devs feedback on these forums as they’ve asked, that’s what you’re supposed to do.
What you’re not supposed to do is exploit the platform by leaving games and ruining the experience for others.
I have never been opposed to a ranked lobby, but I think that matchmaking should stay as it is. I had many issues with proposed solution and voiced them, and all you did was tell me I was wrong and called me rude.
This is probably the core of our disagreement, my view is that the main MM system should be the one that is most accurately able to rank players by their overall skill and give the most fair matches.
I also happen to think that rotating map pools is currently the best way to do that without splitting players into multiple matchmaking queues, as that would reduce the accuracy of the matchmaker.
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Unhappy players are not the problem, people who dodge maps and waste other people’s time are the problem.
One could argue that some of these players are unhappy with the functionally of ranked matchmaking, and that’s irrelevant, what’s relevant is that you use whatever platform you choose to play on as its intended, and do not act toxic by dodging maps and sending players back to the queue.
Pfff, Irrelevant? If you agree with the premise that the definitive edition should be for everyone, then how can you say that they should move to an alternative platform? In your mind everyone must accept the platform instead of the platfrom taking into account the existing playerbase. And then you wonder why I think you are disrespectfull. How can they have any choice when one day all the other platforms will lose their players?
I’m not sure where I contradicted myself. I understand that dodgers are not there just to annoy others, but it’s a consequence of their selfishness and this post is calling that out.
You acknowledge that there is a problem with the system and that players are left out, but continue to call them selfish.
You ignore the root of the problem, which is not selfishness, but their desire to have controll over what maps they play. That is taken away from them, there is an order to this. You neglect why some maps are more popular than others, and you neglect that not everyone is convinced that a game should decide what they should play.
If you really want to continue and paint players as bad people, then I don’t know what to say.
This is probably the core of our disagreement, my view is that the main MM system should be the one that is most accurately able to rank players by their overall skill and give the most fair matches.
That seems to be the core of our disagreement indeed. I fully agree that these aspects are things we should maximise, but it’s important to strike a healthy balance. Currently we have a really clinical approach that ignores player identity, AOE2 is a game where many are specialised in playing specific maps.
I’m still not entirely convinced that putting players in random maps makes their elo more accurate. Since you are just making an average across all maps, this can give the illusion of being more accurate but instead ELO will not be accurately matched for any of the maps. In contrast to my suggestion, where players seek more likeminded players, their ELO will be more accurate toward eachother.
The current system means that less popular maptypes should be forced into popularity, while I think that encouraging them is a more fitting approach.
These strange reasonings in particular had me scratching my head;
If other maps aren’t going to be relevant then they should just be removed from the game entirely.
It’s bizarre to think like that. There are countless maps, and only a couple can be popular. It’s like you think there is no reason why a map is popular.
nobody joined me and my friend’s lobbies when we were playing Blind Random, Full Random, or Random Land Map
This is part of why you believe it must be like that, because you want to force others into your niche maps. While I think players should have a choice over what map they play.
when I switched to playing Dota 2, CS:GO, and PUBG, and saw how efficient their matchmaking systems were, it made the game accessible to a wider audience, and they blew up as a result.
Because something might work in other games does not mean it will also work in AOE2. Our game is in an entirely different genre and has random mapgeneration, so each map can give endless variation. You can’t even compare it to SC2 because of this reason.
Yeah we are definitely miles apart. And it’s so strange because my suggestion actually allows and encourages to play many different maps, however wait times will be democratic. It’s too bad that you dismiss it and already seem to know how it will pan out, since it would not behave exactly like a lobby which you use as a frame of reference.
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DE may not be perfect, but it is a perfectly viable platform for competitive AoE2, many others seem to think so, the ones that don’t should simply not use the platform until their wants are met. Dodging maps and making the experience worse for everyone else is just rude.
Please stop putting words in my mouth and reply to my comments directly, this is not my viewpoint.
These are not mutually exclusive viewpoints, exploiting a system you perceive to be broken at the expense of other players is still selfish.
The selfishness comes from dodging maps and exploiting the current system. DE currently does not have map choice for ranked play. You should respect that until they add the feature, plain and simple.
I agree and I think there are solutions to this, but until one of them gets implemented, people shouldn’t dodge maps.
Hera has said on his stream that he thinks the DE ladder is far more accurate than voobly’s ladder, largely due to the map pool variance.
I have personally enjoyed many high quality matches against evenly matched opponents on most maps, and there are a large number of people who can say the same, I encourage you to give it a shot.
I already answered your other questions and criticisms in your own thread and I do not want to muddy the topic at hand any longer.
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Normal, happens all the time. Always has.
Not a fan of Nomad. There’s a reason it gets Xd out on my ranked settings. The map is too unpredictable, and the balance of the map itself can be bad. I know the FFA community likes this map, but for ranked I think it should be removed from both rotations. Steppe was a better map for the ranked rotation IMO. That’s as close to Nomad as I want to get.
I only have one core thing to say - “Freedom” is a very poor choice of words.
Expanding on that: there is no competition with freedom. You can’t have the freedom to do whatever the heck you want, whenever you want. That might be the way society is going in general, but you can’t have your perfect way all the time if you want to play competitively. Ranked is for competitive play. If you can’t learn the rules of the competition, then don’t play. It might be a tired statement, but it’s true.
The rules are different than they used to be, and I for one am all for it. It makes for a far better competitive scene, and creates variety. It’s also objectively clear that it increases the accuracy of the ranked ladder by eliminating people that, say, play only Black Forest with Vikings on old datasets?
If you don’t want map randomization in ranked, then sure - say you don’t want that. But don’t say it’s a disgrace and bad for the game, because it clearly is not. It creates well-rounded competitive players that know how to adapt, instead of being stuck in one playstyle.
That’s how Viper got to be how he is today. He played random civ, on random maps, and didn’t care what he was thrown with. He just played, and played to get good no matter the circumstances.
If everyone played one map, the game would be far more boring than it would be otherwise.
AS FOR THE TOPIC:
Leaving maps multiple times within, say, 5 consecutive matches, should be punishable by ELO loss. Unless, of course, there’s a ping issue or the server disconnects you.
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