In another scale skirmishers are way cheaper than arbalesters, still they are a very hard counter to them.
I don’t expect them to kill paladin 1v1, but i would expect that a counter do more dmg than recieved dmg.
60dmg vs 70dmg is basically the same, if halbs could do an extra hit iit would be 60 vs 105, it would make more sense to use infantry and Anti infantry units like HC
maybe so but a 25 food 35 wood skirm is much closer to the price of an arbalester (25 wood, 45 gold) then a 35 food 25 wood halb is to the price of a paladin (60 food, 75 gold).
and what do you do about say goths, whose halbs lack the final armor upgrade, so now they do just the same as a normal halb? or Teutons who already get the armor bonus? or Japanese who attack 33% faster?
furthermore you’ve just made halbs that much better then pikes, so those civs without halb are even more disadvantaged.
Goths can spam way faster than a normal civ,
Teuton would still have extra armor, it would not mean much against a regular paladin, but still is good bonus for trash wars, lithuanian paladin, cavaliers and other cavalry units
Japanese? Again it won’t change their actual 1v1 against paladin, but the extra armor combines with the extra attack speed would make both halbs to survive in a 2v1, barely
Also, the civs that actually do not have pikemen have access to camels, eagles or un case of vikings bonus damage against cav… I would expect halbs to do better than pikes, is a 600 gold upgrade
Halbs already do better then pikes though, so why do they need to be buffed? your comparison to arbs vs elite skirm falls flat when you realize just how much closer in cost they are.
just because you think they aren’t good enough against paladin doesn’t mean much. look at the cost of paladin vs the cost of halb.
How did this devolved into a “buff halberdier pls” thread… And to think there are other people who would argue halbs are OP 11
I wish people who are below 1300 elo couldn’t spam balance threads.
I like the game is somehow balanced among all elos.
how do you do that though? because for example - archers aren’t that good against knights unless microed, and yet at lower levels micro is non existent.
exactly, that’s how it works. in lower elos the knights attack the frontline units before enganging the archers 
Its really nice how the elo balance works in this game.
I’ve seen people wanting halbs to go faster or claim Ethiopian free pikes are useless, so I doubt the “frontline units” is used correctly, or if it’s even produced in the first place 11
so by this statement you’re saying that higher ELO players tend to ignore the meatshield and go for the archers? by that logic, you removing halbs from Mayans and knocking them back down to pikes is, by your own admission and logic, nerfing Mayans anti cavalry units.
yeah that’s why at low elos chinese are one of the worst civs in the game.
exactly. or, by his own logic, his earlier statement about mayans still being balanced despite losing halbs is indeed a nerf at the pro level.
The only thing they are OP against is cavalry, they are nothing more than a cheap counter unit like the skirmisher.
Some people think they are too good against cav and eles, some other think they kill hussar in trash wars too fast compared to the speed at which they die to skirms. But in the grand scheme of things they are fine, they don’t need to be nerfed or overbuffed like proposed here.
I also meant elephants when I said cavalry and Halberdiers are hard-countered by HC because of their weak stats.
I always thought of HC as a ranged unit alternative if you didn’t go for crossbows early. You need less upgrades and such. though still could boost them only a little bit i think.
Now that the accuracy has been buffed to 75% do you think that they’ll become more viable? And what about Indian cannoneers?
Also, does that affect Arquebus UT or not?
Nope, I think they are just as bad as before.
Usually you want them as halb killers, the incr accuracy doesn’t help there at all.
Maybe they are now better against cav, but that isn’t really their job. So it’s a waste imho.
i aslo think they more need +HP or +ATK buff
17 ATK isn’t enough for you?
I think the other way around: Higher ROF but lower atk and acc would make the deal for them.
Maybe also a small boost in mobility.
And yes I changed my mind. I thought more bonus vs infantry would help, but I actually think that wouldn’t solve the issue either.