Too bad, I’ve always liked the hand cannoneer as concept.
Honestly I don’t see the point in going HC except against Eagles (faster to tech into compared to champions) and maybe Huskarls if I have a civ that doesn’t get champions, because just to kill halbs I’d rather make my own halbs and spare gold for better units.
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nope. it’s the opposite. Their bad rof paired with a lot of overkill.
YOu need to consider that you will have to deal with mass infantry usually. Making them better in mini-micro won’t help them in this sits. They need to be able to deal with bigger masses of infantry. And that’s what they currently suck in. In small scales they are actually quite good against infantry.
Agree. And to solve this they should have higher rof and maybe also a bit higher speed.
If they need thing, it will be only increasing the projectile speed nothing more.
HCs are still bad at their job. Either go the historically accurate way and make them a Siege unit, or give them 100% Accuracy so they can stutter-step against Infantry, and actually be decent at it.
They actually do worse against Eagles, then against other Infantry, because Eagles are fast.
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No, because then they would just start to become Arbalests that you just do not have to upgrade into.
It is better if they keep as they are, and just get 100% Accuracy and the same HP as Arbs.
I know, but if for some reason you didn’t upgrade your militia line, aside from heavy cavalry or some infantry UU they’re your only choice.
But yes, they’re not ideal, expecially against Mayan eagles.
This saddens me even more.
I like gunpowder units 
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How you can ever justify to give HC the same acc as arbs? How is this historically accurate?
Your argumentation is weird to say the least.
But ok, I said my 2 cents. If they decide to go the acc way, they can. But I promise it wont make them better actually.
I would rather use Light Cavalry, atleast you would only be losing Food, which is quasi-infinite.
Devs should give a Matchlock tech that improves Accuarcy to 100%, and just buff their HP to the same as Arbs.
Specialist units should be able to perform their specialist function. the reason why HCs cannot, is that they waste too many shots, while Arbs waste none after Ballistics and Thumb Ring.
Arbs would still have RoF and Range advantages, but at least HCs would be able to counter Infantry.
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So after the latest buff to HC, Turks now have a lesser UU compared to generic HC. Great. 
I like gunpowder units a lot but none of them are viable other than maybe Conqs. Nothing seems to change about it as well. Only important thing is to just make more money with new expansions and mess with the balance so people have things to talk until the next patch.
So, you are saying that for historical accuracy the Morrion helmet of the HC should be removed?
Nope. Turks still have the best Castle Age UU, because unlike the HC, it can 5-shot a Mangonel, and has better Range than Elite Skirms and Crossbows.
I wish HCs were as good as Castle Age Janissaries!
It was a bad addition, but there is no need to remove it now. The previous model, however, was much more period-accurate.
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TBH, I like the new state of the HC
We can always come back to this topic, but at least let’s try it
In 2 months we can continue with the never-ending complaint
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It is not never-ending, the complaints will stop once the HC actually has a viable role.
I think the role is actually preset by the demands of the cav civs:
They should be able to deal with mass halb (+ofc some ranged support) (Maybe in accompanion with a cheap buffer unit like champs or halb themselves).
I don’t see any other role these civs need to have filled.
And ofc the gold cost of the HC needs to be accounted by the tests with them, as halbs cost no gold and are therefore much easier to replace than HC.
Maybe it’s that easy actually: Reduce Gold cost in exchange for higher food cost. Then HC are easier to replace and much more viable as ranged support for the cav.
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I don’t think some good knight civ such as Franks, Berbers, Lithuanians need to be buffed against Halbs. It is their only weakness that opponent can be exploited and they are in a good spot accompany with that weakness.
I also feel like that HC is not a good option in the long run due to the gold cost. I think some other tech to switch some gold cost of HC to food cost would be interesting. But that tech should be not given to good knight civs. I would give that tech to civs such as Turks /Portuguese /Italians /Koreans /Saracens/ Indians and maybe Persians/ Spanish (also knight civ have to deal with Halbs, but not in a good spot in current balance)
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No please!
Paladin civs should not have any crutches to further empower Paladins.
Part of the problem of making HC actually viable is the fact that both good civs and not so good civs both have them. If you buff HC you are buffing civs that don’t need a buff.
Not if you do it with an upgrade, that can be denied to civs that are already good.
Yes I agree making a new tech that is the best solution but a difficult one. You have to go through balancing a whole new tech which has its own problems.
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I disagree, it would be easy to implement, and just to the civs that really need it.
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