I don’t know why Haud should exist in current patch. They’re the most boring civ among the game, while they’re not strong at all. Lakota can nearly do anything better than them now.
In age II Lakota has everything better than Haud: 4 axe rider overwhelms 4 kanya, and 7 cetan is better than 7 aenna. Tomahawk may be a better unit after 1-2 shipments, but I didn’t mention Lakota has insane bow riders and dog soldiers. Haud needs at least 2 upgrade shipments to have better units, while Lakota already raided 10+ villagers and goes age III easily.
And fortress age: dog soldiers, rifle riders lol. Haud do have better skirmisher, but after a nerf Forest Prowler is just the same as a standard skirmisher (with warchief aura!). Hmm, Haud have mantlets and rams, hope they can hold dog soldiers.
Even in age IV Lakota has auto-upgraded Tashunke and dog soldiers, and still overwhelms Haud units. They only thing Haud gets is light cannons, but Lakota has mortars too!
So Lakota has way better military and insane mobility, do Haud have better eco? NO. Lakota can go market+teepee start, while Haud can do nothing. Water boom used to be a thing, but now it takes a century to build a dock. In Age II Haud only have 5 villagers without 2nd market tech, while Lakota have Great Hunter, and can go TP boom more easily as they don’t need houses. Adoption boom in fortress age is also easier than Agrarian Way, and Lakota have another 12 bisons and another 20% hunting boost. They can even do some Advanced Market builds with high-efficiency food incomes.
Docks build a bit faster. It’s a joke to take 1 minute for a dock.
“Agrarian ways” makes farm and plantation techs immediately researched. You already have to invest 2 travois for that, and shouldn’t wait for extra time.
The shipment to research wood logging techs free and the shipment to make musket riders and forest prowlers cost wood: they should be combined to one shipment. It’s impossible to invest two shipments for that in supremacy. Notice that Aztec have a shipment to both boost mining and to transform unit costs to gold.
Cavalry combat. Even with cavalry combat Haud can hardly use Kanya in late game, so it won’t be a big threat to balance.
Unlock cuirassier training in age IV. Just like what USA and Mexico did.
Some FUN shipments. If we don’t wanna buff Haud, at least make it not so boring.
If you legit think lakota has a better age2 than haude, or better infantry, dont care for light cannons dont think MR/KH are solid and think the solution is to break them via spamming age4 cuirs all i can say is your not very good with haude probably
I don’t say this often seeing how this game is such a tight knit community and all, but this is purely a l2p issue.
Lakota may have the upper hand in early game if and only if you attempt to all-in, otherwise Hauds are just simply better in the late game.
The thing about “dog” soldiers - I assume tokala, is that you can’t really spam them in age 3…
Rifle riders get countered by the only trash unit in the game, the haud archer costing only food.
Light cannons are the best artillery unit in the game, and hauds get mortars too, but they don’t need them cause light cannons are OP.
You seem to be playing hauds as if they are a cav civ, they are not. They are an infantry, booming focused civ with cav that only works for specific encounters (kanya vs archers, musket rider vs HC) and they should not form the bulk on your army.
Try tomas + forest prowler + light cannon and see how lakota does against that lol. Or MR + FP + LC
Well, the native civs are like that…each one has its own…the Lakotas are for rushing early with cavalry, the Hauds and Incas do turtle with infantry and the Aztecs are mixed…
They have a Musketeer like unit with Tomahawks, a better Skirmisher like unit with Forest Prowlers and the ability to make Light Cannons which are a hybrid of a Falconet and Culverin as well as a Dragoon like unit with the Musket Rider that doesn’t have so many weaknesses so they have some military advantages over Lakota civ. They have better rush potential then Lakota have.
You start with a Travois which can build a dock on water maps or you can use it to build a farm giving you some nice XP to send your 1st shipment sooner as well as techs increasing your food gather rate even from hunts.
It is awkward compared to all civs - Age IV Siege only has it diverge from Europe alongside a Terrible Eco as one example.
I have been making posts around suggesting Haude get a Native Allies Age I Card (essentially more-so a Native/Tribal Coercion card given the history). Where they would get access to a CHOICE of 3 native allies - the Cree, the Cherokee & the Huron. Each one has 1 Eco Bonus that would adapt to the map and person’s playstyle somewhat & each adds a different dimension to the Civ as a whole - e.g. 1) Food & Wood Costing Gun-Skirms or expensive yet impactful Age II Mantlets, 2) a strength in Native play given the H.P. boost is great for all 3 of these Native Allied units). They would need a bit of a nerf/re-orientation elsewhere… but YES Haude needs to change WITH how the game has progressed it seems to me (i.e. the devs moved the early rush potential away from Haude & others to a fair extent - which is fine, but there was nothing to bridge the gap essentially).
I just played against an Aztec player who gets 10 quick Priests & 100 shipments before I get 10. I DUTIFULLY work on my eco, but in the end their shipments buffing their units outdo Haudenosaunee ones (40%/40% for 3/8 Haude units is nice - yet that’s over 4 shipments, it is not equal to 4 extra range or 20% damage & 15% resistance + each one gets a unit shipment for a bit of coin all in 1… also remember reduced support shipments with religious unity too).
Even the ability for Haude to get the New Ways Card is just so 1 dimensional in 95+% of cases - i.e. you ONLY want Countre infantry Rifling - maybe you need Heavy Cavalry Caracole. They’re great upgrades, but these are basic for every Euro Civ & as mentioned 500 coin for 4 increased Range & 5 Eagle Runner Knights & the New Ways techs still cost resources for those upgrades.
The CARD should instead I think give ‘Trurion’ for more H.P. on the Artillery or just give another infantry tech making it 0 upgrades for buildings/artillery (+ LoS isn’t needed and + movement speed is a bit too good for them, but heated shot isn’t useful as you either win water or lose it - so without increasing T.C. fire range you’re not doing anything with this technology).
-Having Tomahawks in unit roster doesn’t automatically make it a good thing. They are on the “worse” side of the spectrum when it comes to musket infantry, the only worse unit that comes to my mind is Inca “Bola Warrior”.
-I agree with skirmishers here since Forest Prowlers outperform Wakina Rifles. They have more HP but cost more and have less attack, they also have better and more shipments that can buff them.
-Lakota has 2 dragoon like units: Bow Raider and Rifle Raider. Rifle Raiders are glass cannons, they can deal quite a lot of damage to heavy cav & inf but are countered by too many units (they have heavy & light cav tag) while being too expensive. Bow Raiders are your typical dragoon, their heavy cav modifier is smaller, they attack twice as fast, cost less gold but more food and have melee resist making them easier to kill by ranged units. They also scale better with natives since a bunch of them have damage buffs to bow units. I honestly find Lakota’s dragoon gameplay better.
-Light Cannon is a point for Haudenosaunne since artillery for Lakota is non-existent. The only con of this unit is that it only comes in Age IV and there’s no way to get it sooner.
-Yes, Haudenosaunne spawn with travois & can get more of them by using community plaza, that’s their civ bonus. Lakota on the other hand doesn’t need houses and can spawn one of the best anti-infantry cav in the game.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to say Haudenosaunne is a weak civ, they can put up a fight and don’t instantly lose because they got matched up against 90% of game’s civilzations, but them “feeling” the same way as Europeans is what makes them akward when compared to other natives.
I would rather have a Musketeer like unit in the roster then not having one and they have many cards that buff the Tomahawks.
Forest Prowlers also have more range as well.
Bow Riders are a Cavalry Archer type that has a attack animation that makes it less effective for kiting then Musket Riders and Musket Riders have more speed especially late game with big button tech making them have 7.98 speed if I remember correctly.
Yes that’s because they are a Native American and European hybrid which does make them feel weird. I wish the Battering Rams could be used in age II and make Mantlets be more usable.
