Haudenosaunee - a lategame, circus civilization

The Hauds and the Lakota both need a way to regrow trees entirely, not some shipment that gives them wood or a grove to place down like India. The key to making it most realistic is to give them some way to directly cultivate wood from the map itself.

The Aztecs, on the other hand, just need a trickle or four to stay relevant.

I was thinking a building like “Logging House” thats a forest that has a trickle too like 3-5w/s and you can put 10 vills on it. Make it limited so the player doesnt chop it away etc.

Problem is, they’re already using 25 villagers for their Ceremonial Plaza. If they had to take away more villages just to gather wood, it would noticeably affect the other resources as the game drags longer. I think there should be an additive eco bonus to the Haudenosaunee, rather than allocative, since Warchief civs are usually behind in eco anyways

Aztecs are fine now. Its possible fight skirmishers and caçaddors. Usually I have better k/d ratio than europeans incredibly with them. They need fixed walls, thats all

Aztecs are fine economically. They dont need anything. Thay have the best food gather rate and infinite coin crates help a lot. Also they dont spend too much gold, finally they accumulate it. They are food heavy and their food eco is fine with max plaza.

I can agree with you on that. Aztecs actually do fine economically in the late-game. When I play them, I don’t really spend an inordinate amount of gold and the gold crates really do add up.

I just wish the same manner could be applied to the Haudenosaunee for wood though

Haudenosaunee cards are quite underwhelming. In fact, I find their cards to be the weakest of all civs.

Lakota doesnt need wood in the mid or late game for any of their units (since you will always be doing cav or wakinas) so the idea of infinite wood isnt really an issue.

If you reach a point in a game where there are no trees but you still are Playing lakota and needing wood, either your opponent is really weak and hasnt killed you with eco (since late game eco for lakota is simply not good) or you are playing a 4x4 and you still wont need wood since you will not use any wood unit (Bow riders, Rifle Riders, Axe Riders, and tashunke’s do not use wood).

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4 kanya age 2, 6 kanya age 3, 800 resource age 2, 1200 resource age 3, 4 light canon age 4, 5 mantlet age 3, infinite 1500 resource age 4, 7 aenna age 2, 5 cuir age 3 (without the bug ofc) all these cards are excellent and I do not do not even speak of the card which improves all the infantry

ofc im talking about 1v1

True, but units aren’t the only thing they make. Lakota players constantly consume wood by building masses of teepees and forward bases behind them, even spending more to re-build teepees that get targeted by mortars. Their overall economy is garbage anyways, but the wood problem is inevitable as the inability to procure a viable wood income makes them lose their trump card (teepees)

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Bump, I agree. I play them exclusively in treaty and always run out of wood and coin. Especially if there’s no trading post… it’s just a matter of time. A mechanic to generate wood is needed.

The fact that neither civ can even produce wood from buildings is annoying. Even just a wood generation from tipis or longhouses would be nice.

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stop the house which collects resources and hauds does not need to change the civ is very strong currently

Why not give them a endless mangrove shipment (2 rickschas would probably be fair)? That would solve their wood issues, is little work and also balanced, since they sitll only have 99 vills without generating buuldings (houses,banks facts)

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No doubt they are strong in rush games, but we are talking about the late-game/treaty. Their strength is handicapped when they inevitably run out of wood. They are great when they first start out after 40, but their options get very limited in due time.

I think that would be a good approach, but the quantity of wood within that amount would have to be low (maybe one infinite rickshaw with 1000W). As the lategame fighting drags on, they’ll still be receiving shipments every 3-4 minutes, and I don’t think they could chop wood fast enough to use them without dedicating a chunk of their villagers. They would probably end up with more groves than they can chop down, so they’d give their rickshaws to other teammates.

If the quantity is just 1000W or something, it might as well just be a large shipment of wood. India manages with their Age 4 infinite 1300W card

1k wood is way too low. Needs to be at least 5k wood per shipment, otherwise it s not worth it.
Another apporach would be the aztec treatment, where the wood cost of most haudeno units is replaced with coin cost ( I am thinking about tomahawks, kanya horserider, (maybe mantlets, rams). Light canons should keep wood cost, since they are one of the best units in the game

I can agree that 1k is little if you’re going for mass tomahawks and light cannons, sprinkling in kanya, mantlets, and ram. But 5k seems too much. I don’t think it’s good to take too many villagers away from the farms and estates in dedication of collecting wood crates…

I’d say 3k would be sufficient. My reasoning is that you can expect consistent shipments every 3-4 minutes if the fighting is heavy. It takes 1k wood to make 40 Tomahawks, 1k wood to make ~13 Kanya Horsemen, and then have enough wood to decide what you want to do (make light cannons, mantlets, ram, build FB, etc.). They are sturdy units and won’t die that easily in a few minutes (depending on how good/bad they are played), so the next wood shipment can be saved for other uses.

This isn’t even considering adding in non-wood cost units to your army (Forest Prowlers and Musket Riders), which would help you save you even more wood. 5k would be too much and would possibly lead to too many wood crates stockpiled at the TC, needing a bunch of settlers to getting rid of them all

Also, 2 European factories at 7.15W per second will produce 3,432W in 4 minutes. This would make the Haudenosaunee be able to keep up with infinite wood production via infinite shipments.

Perhaps it is interesting to add a new construction, such as a “Council House”, it could have a kind of political-commercial evolution, which would create a flow of wood. Then the Haudenossaunee could have in the game the representation of their incredible system of government, very democratic. They could also produce “wise women”, due to the importance of older women in their social organization. As the Haudenossaunee, like the Tupi, engineered their woods and forests, they could “build forests”. They could be produced by a “Council House”.

What about an age 4 infinite wood card for 1000 wood?

Shipments are in short supply late game though.