Will Doppelsoldner be buffed in the next update or will it continue to be a bad unit (and useless in team games)?
With a 10% increase in HP he still loses to some units as we can see in the video in which my friend AFKNorris tested.
(20:39) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0jkfvrsxT0&t=1239s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_qejvyE8o (Imperial Doppelsoldner tying with Ronin aged 3, at TAD).
The system of the game itself works against hand infantry.
This requires a major overhaul and change to the counter system, but it will probably cause a backlash from many players.
The purpose of doppelsonder is to deal with cavalry. And they do it very well.
I feel like it’s intentional design that Melee Infantry and Archers become weaker in the late game. People are not supposed to use the same units through all Ages to make the different Ages feel differently.
Light Cavalry is a bit too powerful though so Heavy Infantry is generally not that usfull.
lategame maxed doppels are some of the funnest units to spam and can clear just about any units
I thought so too, but after I TESTED it, I found out that it loses to almost everything in terms of cost and population, winning only cavalry (when it gets close) and pikes.
Doppelsondner manages to be so bad that even with his imperial upgrade, he loses to his mercenary counterpart (Ronin).
In the various tests I have done, he is the only regular unit that in the imperial age is worse than his mercenary counterpart.
Improving your base statistics is the right thing to do, but that could change the balance of Uhlan-civ in 1v1 games, for that another nerf could be seen, since Uhlan-civ have some questionable points like the 2sw card at age 1, and the 3sw card at age 2, 3 Uhlans on each shipment at age 3 … But since I am not a 1v1 player and I am not a professional player I am not as suitable to say which nerf would be ideal.
My point is that the unit has underperformed compared to similar units and horrible performance vs musketeers, and Uhlan-civ does not have good infantry at a distance to compensate, as do other civilizations that do not have musketeers.
I am a team player and making Uhlan is really the only viable path for this civilization. This is not a good thing.
doppens are for defending something , they not must chase, they siege buildings and protect static units like cannons etc from other units, they never have to chase. They are worth only if are on stand ground mode and are protecting a unit from cavalry or shock infnatery.
Their speed is not for chase is for sieging faster and for running from ranged units
Dopps are poor defensive troops. They cost too much and take too much pop, for slow Hand Infantry.
What Dopps are really good at, is getting 4-5 of them, and rushing the opponent, to Siege down buildings.
Send in your 3 Dopps with 2 Uhlans, as you train 4-5 Dopps, and just rush down the enemy TC. It actually works a lot of the time, and you win the game easy.
They have 60 Siege attack and 240 HP, they are basically Battering Rams inthe Colonial Age.
You have to understand that all ranged units are simply stronger than melee units in the game, and this is the same case for Doppelsoldners. They are strong at what they do, but you don’t just throw them against bunch of Musketeers and expect them to win. They are often used in German mirrors and even possibly against Russia and Aztecs for example, so they do have a purpose. I’ve also seen treaty players using it as a siege potential.
Secondly, the comparison of Ronins and Doppelsoldners. Ronins are actually three times stronger than doppels because they have almost double the hitpoints, attack and also melee resistance, while it may seem they are two times stronger because they cost twice the resource amount of doppels. So comparing 20 doppels vs 10 ronins doesn’t make sense. Doppels are available in age 2 and Ronins aren’t. Population cost matters a lot too and I can see that ronins taking 4 pop space isn’t good at all when compared to doppels taking 2. Doppels are fine as they are. Practically thinking, you wouldn’t make doppels against ronins when you have skirmishers.
I’d argue that Germany isn’t an Uhlan-only civ, but uhlans are indeed the backbone of german army. They also have war wagons, which I think are great in team games than 1v1, and they can try doing mercenaries too.
I mean when I say maxxed out, I do mean with all possible upgrades(though maybe not Soligen steel, because it slows their speed)
That means all combat cards + church tech + advanced arsenal + training speed upgrade.
In total they will have about 6 speed + 30% atk, +40% hp and train nearly instantly, just pop them into the enemy formation and watch them melt.
Its not a competitive BO but its great fun.
The issue is that you will “pop them into the enemy formation”. The enemy will just kite them back permanenetly and kill them off with Musks and Skirms, or just blast them to shreds with Cannon.
A good group of Dopps is actually good, but for only 1 job, Siege.
Against the European and Asian civs, they are amazing at taking out Wonders and Factories.
I personally don’t think mass doppels alone are of any use. But I’ve dealt with good German treaty players, and doppels are effective as seige units and a situational brawl winner. There’s nothing wrong with the unit - I think it’s very powerful and does its job well.
But it has its specific function, and don’t expect a good result trying to send mass doppels against its counter. Skirms just kite and widdle you down, and you can charge cannons if the enemy resistance isn’t that strong.
I personally think it’s better to stick to the basic, normal army (skirm, War Wagons, cannons, uhlans) and then have Doppels on the side. ** They aren’t supposed to be brokenly well-rounded (like the un-nerfed Carolean is).**
But if the situation is tight and the enemy can’t run (such as an opponent having to stay in place to protect slow cannons), doppels can be really effective if you force the brawl. You know you will likely come out on top and win if you have enough numbers.
So just judge the unit in its lane. You gotta think about how doppels fare within its own class against halberdiers, pikemen, samurai, etc.
Also, judge them by how effectively it does its designed function against heavy cav. Doppels DESTROY heavy cav. It’s very discouraging to break into an enemy base with heavy cav to see doppels chilling there
I mean if they have space to kite then that is another problem, the ability to pop them into the enemy formation requires building FBs close to where the enemy is and just spam them on top. Their weakness is that they can be kited, that can be addressed to a certain extent with good placement and planning
A sample game for the meme power of Dopp. its an FFA game so its not in any way competitive but this is to show what it is capable of.
DoppMeme.age3Yrec (9.6 MB)
Not to mention they are very good at defending cannon balls from heavy cav.
The idea of ​​the topic was to show how inferior the Doppelsoldners are when in combat with similar units, that is, other heavy infantry.
That it is bad, considering its cost and pop, in these battles this is a fact, just test it.
Doppelsoldner works relatively well as a pike, but it seems to me, from his design, that he should have a decent performance against other heavy infantry units, since he doesn’t have the 5 speed, and the x5 multiplier against cavalry, which normal pikes do. I also remember that the damage in the area does not receive the x3 bonus against cavalry.
Even so, I thank those who tried to contribute to the topic.
Yeah but they are not units that are meant to fight 1-on-1, that doesn’t in anyway utilise their aoe damage.
They perform very well against just about every units once you get a mass of them to fight against another mass, since that allows them to deal much more damage, their aoe damage cap is x2, so they effectively have a x2 bonus against every unit when fighting in mass. The aoe damage also bypasses armour so other heavy infantry doesn’t gets the full damage.
Dopps destroy cav and other hand infantry. Beyond that, not much usage beyond maybe defending art or sending a few to siege enemy buildings.
Dopps are my favourite unit, but only is effective against cav, to siege or to protect artillery… And Landsknecht…even worse
It is amazing at Siege, however.
Dopps are hard to get in the Colonial Age, but if you can get a few + the Shipement, you can usually just siege down the opponent’s TC, in a 1v1.
It is hard to do, because Dopps are brutally expensive, but it does catch people offguard a lot, and I have won games with it.